Transcript #116

MuggleCast 116 Transcript

Show Intro

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Andrew: Today’s MuggleNet podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for the Phoenix Rising Conference. Borders was there to take in the sites and share a lively discussion of the series that has bewitched the world with some of Harry’s most dedicated fans. Listen in and watch the action yourself. Check our The Phoenix Rising, Borders Book Club
discussion at, or click on the Borders banner at the top of the MuggleNet page.

[Intro music starts]

Micah: Because sometimes pigs are made for slaughter, this is MuggleCast Episode 116 for October 8th, 2007.

[Intro music keeps playing a little louder]

Andrew: Well, we’re back for another week of Harry Potter podcasting here. Or should I say, I’m back. Hehehe..

Laura: Wooo.

Andrew: Thanks, Laura.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Andrew: And also Jerry’s here again and joining us this week.

Jerry: Hello.

Andrew: Because nobody else wants to talk to you guys anymore.

[Eric laughs]

Eric: It’s just the 4 of us. It’s just…

Andrew: Yeah, I’ll tell you what, the news has been so slow lately.

Laura: It really has.

Andrew: There’s nothing to talk about anymore.

Laura: I feel really depressed, like, I think about the times before the book came out and just how much news we had and now I just look at the main page and it’s dead.

Andrew: Yeah, we would have spent an entire episode just on the news.

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Now it’s like an entire minutes just on the news.

Eric: Actually, just last week it took us 40 minutes to get through the news. That could have been me, but… [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Well, oh yeah, and there’s that whole thing with the tickets.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: But…

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: So, we’re going to get through some news this week and then we’re going to have some Muggle Mail and apparently nobody like the name change.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: You guys were like, making fun of me. We don’t have to call it Muggle Mail. We can keep calling it rebuttals. I just thought…

Jerry: I like it.

Laura: Muggle Mail’s fine. I just like to make…

Jerry: Because they email it…

Laura: Fun of you. I’m sorry.

Andrew: Last week you’re like [blows raspberry]

[Laura laughs]

Eric: I think it’s because some of our listeners posts their e-mail?I mean… No mail is posts…

Andrew: What? Posts are e-mail? That’s an oxymoron.

Eric: No…

Andrew: Mail as in e-mail?

Eric: Well, Muggle Mail. You know most of the wide world calls it post, therefore…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Just the fact that you’re using Muggle Mail is strict Americanism that should be stopped dead, but…

Andrew: Oooh, I get it.

Jerry: Muggle groups!

Laura: Oh no! Americanisms on an American show.

Eric: You can’t call it Muggle Post because that’s copyright.

Andrew: It doesn’t roll off the tongue as well.

Eric: And it doesn’t roll off the tongue.

Andrew: Muggle Post. Muggle Mail. Muggle Mail, Muggle, Mail, Muggle Mail.

Laura: I like Muggle Mail better.

Andrew: Yeah, basically.

Jerry: Me, as well.

Andrew: I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Jerry: And I’m Jerry Cook.

[Intro music continues louder]


Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum is in the MuggleCast News Center with this weeks past Harry Potter news stories. Hey, Micah.

Micah: Another set of JK Rowling’s autographed Harry Potter books has been put up for auction by the National Braille Press last week for the Hands On! Books for Blind Children charity. This organization “strive[s] to eliminate the literacy gap that separates blind children from the mainstream.” The auction will continue until October 25, 2007, at 9:00 PM EDT and on the next day it will be featured live at the gala hosted by The Tonight Show‘s Jay Leno.

The Order of the Phoenix movie is not the world’s 6th highest earning film accumulating a staggering $933.9 million worldwide. Sorcerer’s Stone is at number 4 with 976.5 million. On top of that the 5th film has surpassed Goblet of Fire‘s US sales of $290,013,036 earning its self $290,189,393.

In a new interview with Variety, Harry Potter producer David Heyman discusses what lies ahead for him after the last two films as well as what it has been like to work with actors both young and old. Heyman takes little credit for the development of the young stars citing their relationships with actors such as Gary Oldman and Maggie Smith:

“It’s because of their commitment and curiosity to develop their craft. We’ve given them the platform, but they’re here because they’re good.”

Finally, The Daily Mail is reporting that the 11-year old nephew of Voldemort actor Ralph Fiennes is set to be cast as young Tom Riddle in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. Director David Yates says he has found someone to play the part, but couldn’t comment on who it is:

“I’ve found a really interesting kid to play Riddle. I can’t tell you who it is yet– it’s early days.”

That’s all the news for this October 8th, 2007 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

News Discussion: Harry Potter is Wizard of the Month

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah. We have, as I said in the intro, as you can tell by Micah’s news, there was some news, there wasn’t a lot. Not as much to discuss, either. One thing I did want to point out. J.K. Rowling Wizard of the Month for October is Harry Potter.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: It’s sort of been building up. It started with the Four Founders, and Godric Gryffindor was last. Then it went to Dumbledore?

Laura: Yeah, he was a Wizard of the Month. I just don’t remember when.

Andrew: And then it was to Voldemort. I know Voldemort was last month and now it’s Harry Potter, and I’m just thinking, she keeps building up to the greatest Wizard of the Month sort of seems like what she’s trying to get across. Now, I’m wondering who’s next. Who could be greater than Harry Potter?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Or do you think she’s going to go back to normal wizards? Know what I’m saying?

Eric: Ginny Weasley, his…

Andrew: Ginny Weasley?

Eric: This is what the thing will read: “Wife of Harry Potter puts up with all his crap, and his angsty moods.” No, I really don’t know.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I don’t know. I just thought it was some Food for Thought because…

Laura: Yeah, it’s interesting.

Andrew: …it seems like it keeps building up.

Eric: Yeah…

Andrew: The wizard. They’re getting bigger and bigger.

Laura: I just wonder how much longer she’s going to keep doing that.

Andrew: The Wizard of the Month?

Laura: She’s going to run out of Wizards eventually.

Andrew: Yeah. That’s true. Can’t have a Wizard of the Month…

Jerry: There is a paragraph of work. I mean, come on.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s true.

Jerry: She can manage it.

Eric: It’s not like she’s writing books.

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Eric: But, I mean, it can be done automatically. I mean, it is just the first of every month. If it isn’t already…

Andrew: I’m sure Jo’s not sitting there…

Andrew: Oh, I’m sure Jo’s not sitting there, “Oops, 7:00! Publish.” Like, you know.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Sorry, not 7:00, but…

Eric: Why not? Why couldn’t J.K. Rowling have a direct hand in her website? That’s how I imagine it.

Jerry: I’d like to think she does.

Andrew: Jo’s not sitting up at midnight every…

Eric: When I go to – Hey, Andrew, I’ve sat up at midnight and hit publish before on that little section of MuggleNet I do. And…

Andrew: Well, you’re insane like that.

Laura: Ok, so yeah you’re not a best selling author, either.

Eric: I just imagine… That’s true. Not yet. Not yet, that’s true. Not yet. But, it’s – I just imagine that it’s Jo to us, you know what I’m saying?

Andrew: I would love to see…

Eric: That he updates

Jerry: Her hand presses that button.

Eric: Like, when the door locks, for instance. I imagine it’s her on the other side of the door, not letting us through. [laughs] It’s just me.

Laura: Well, it is, but she doesn’t – it’s all automatically done. It’s timed.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I would love to see the admin panel for that site.

Laura: Oh, that would be cool.

Andrew: [weird voice]I would love to see the Administration Panel.

Jerry: Or is it all just kind of flash programming?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, I think that – I wonder if Jo has like, you know how like we have MuggleNet Accio. I named it that, MuggleNet Accio.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I’m meaning like all-encompassing. I wonder if she has one where like she clicks the tabs and updates the site herself or…

Laura: J.K. Rowling Accio.

Andrew: If she just – yeah. [laughs] She just e-mails like Lightmaker.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: Like, you know, “Here’s my latest blog post. Post it, please.”

Eric: Well I wonder, because it begs the question, how many other people do we know…

Jerry: Hmmm.

Eric: Because Lightmaker makes a lot of other sites too. We know a few people who they’ve made sites for, don’t we?

Andrew: Well, Emma Watson’s official site is created by Lightmaker.

Jerry: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, yes, of course.

Andrew: That’s the most recent one. There are some other ones. Let me just go on their website real quick.

Jerry: The official website design company for Harry Potter movies.

Andrew: Right. Well, not the Harry Potter movies, are they?

Jerry: No, no. Harry Potter actors.

Andrew: Okay. Kid’s Choice Awards, they designed the Kid’s Choice Awards site for Nickelodean. Dominion Chick. Whatever that is. The FA Girls United, which is “a microsite supporting the England Women’s Football Team.”

Eric: Oooh, interesting.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: How are they doing, Jerry? Have you ever seen that?

Jerry: [laughs] Didn’t know they existed? Shows how much attention I pay to sports.

Andrew: Oh, wait, looks like they also do a lot of video games, sports pages.

Jerry: I wonder if Jo’s site was their big break in mainstream sites. Big mainstream sites.

Andrew: I would think so.

Laura: Mhm.

Eric: I wonder if she found them.

Andrew: I’m looking at their portfolio now and there’s a lot of more recent, like, video games and stuff like that. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and also Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix website, I think I remember was created by Lightmaker too.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Andrew: So, they get around. They definitely get around.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Andrew: Moving on. A new actor…

Eric: Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait!

Andrew: What?

Eric: Quick speculation on Harry being the Wizard of the Month in October.

Andrew: Go for it.

Eric: As opposed to July, where July’s when he and, obviously, J.K. Rowling are born. Now, October was – I mean, Halloween night, October 31st was the night that Voldemort attacked Harry. Do you think that has any significance here? Like…

Jerry: Yeah, could be.

Andrew: Well, maybe.

Laura: Well, yeah, that’s what I was thinking.

Eric: Because, like, October’s when Harry first brought hope to the world. Though, arguably that was in November. Because the beginning of the first book is either November 1st or 2nd dependingif you subscribe to the Lost Day theory or Missing Day. But it’s – McGonagall says, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was Harry Potter Day in the future. And it was because like it’s the day that everyone is running around with cloaks and stuff and was all happy? So, do you guys – like I would have thought it would be kind of November or something. Or, at any rate…

Laura: Well…

Eric: I think people should kind of pick that up and have celebrations on November 1st or 2nd as opposed to just, like, July 31st for Harry parties.

Laura: I think the point is that Voldemort actually attacked them on October 31st. And, of course, people were celebrating the next day. So, I think that’s…

Eric: The next day’s a whole other month, though.

Laura: Okay. But, I think that if there’s any significance to her making Harry Wizard of the Month of October, it’s because October was the month in which his family was attacked.

Eric: Yeah, okay.

Andrew: But then begs the question, why would Voldemort be Wizard of the Month for August?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Sorry, September, September.

Eric: I mean, just looking at it. If you think about it, if he attacked them late at night on October 31st British time, it was already November 1st in New Zealand.

[Andrew laughs and coughts]

Laura: Okay. And she clearly cares what time it was in New Zealand.

Jerry: She has a huge dice that she rolls

Eric: But it puts a kink in the Missing Day theory, because technically anything happened on two days. So, I don’t know, but – Just my thoughts.

Andrew: You know, speaking of, like, a big Harry Potter Day, a lot of people are trying to organize a big event. I’m trying to find e-mails now, because I know I’ve been e-mailed about it. Have you guys heard about this? It’s, like a big Harry Potter day – oh, what year is it? It’s the day in the Epilogue.

Jerry: King’s Cross, yeah.

Andrew: And everyone wants to gather…

Laura: Oh, at King’s Cross Station.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. Have you guys heard about that? I’m trying to get the exact day.

Laura: Yeah, I did.

Andrew: But it’s so far off from now, that I just think everyone’s going to forget about it.

Eric: It’s like 2026. Andrew, when you do that, the other thing is still on Harry Potter in the text-only site, or actually anywhere. For Wizard of the Month, it says, “Potter joined the reshuffled Auror Department under Kingsley Shacklebolt at age 17, rising to become Head of said department in 2007.” So, she’s actually made it so that in the storyline, which she now subscribes to, surprisingly. The storyline is that Harry just became Head of Auror Department this year. So, if he were living…

Andrew: Oh, Okay.

Jerry: Perhaps it was this month this year.

Laura: Hmmm.

Eric: Well, it just says in 2007. So, she made him Head of the Department this year so I bet everyone’s really happy. I bet Severus is really happy for his daddy.

News Discussion: Tom Riddle Actor

Andrew: Yeah, that’s cool. So,I guess moving along now. New actor to play Tom Riddle. Previously in Chamber of Secrets it was Christian Coulson. But this is a young Tom Riddle so he had to be recast. And I don’t think Christian Coulson was up for it, anyway.

Eric: You don’t know that.

Andrew: I thought we heard he wasn’t up for it.

Eric: Oh, did you?

Laura: Yeah, I heard he wasn’t interested.

Eric: That’s a shame.

Andrew: But then I was just looking at his IMDB profile – well, first let’s get to the story and then we’ll talk about it. Titan Tiffin is supposed to be cast as the young Tom Riddle. This comes from a recent article in the Daily Mail, so it’s not the most reliable source, but it seems to be picking up some steam here. And David Yates was quoted as saying, “I’ve found a really interesting kid to play Riddle. I can’t tell you who it is yet. It’s early days.” Meaning early days in the filming process. However, it seems like with Goblet of Fire and Order
of the Phoenix
with my experience, even before they started filming we would get these casting confirmations. But it seems now that Warner Brothers is trying to hide all of it until later. Which seems kind of strange.

Eric: Well, what kind of cards do they have to play? They can’t hide a book. So… [laughs]

Jerry: Hmmm.

Andrew: Yeah, I know. I know. So, this guy has a little connection to Ralph Fiennes. He is the eldest son of Ralph’s younger sister Martha, an award-winning film director, and Old Etonian George Tiffin, a novelist and film producer. Martha’s the award-winning film director and George Tiffin, his father is a novelist and film producer. But a quick search on IMDB will reveal that Titan Tiffin has never been in
a movie or anything before. So, he’s going to be a brand new actor.

Jerry: But he has an amazing name.

Andrew: It is a cool name. Ttitan Tiffin.

Jerry: Very cool name.

Andrew: Yeah. So, we’re still waiting on confirmation on that from Warner Brothers. We have no idea how old this kid is or anything, so I guess we’ll just have to wait.

Eric: I’m pretty sure there will be, as soon as it’s confirmed. There will be all sorts of information on him. And the thing that I have with IMDB is that great actors like Ian McKellen often do a lot of stage plays, and there’s no – that stuff just doesn’t show up on IMDB anyway. There’s just no place for it if they do stuff on stage in acting.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Eric: So, it’s possible he does have acting experience.

Andrew: He could. Yeah, that’s true.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: There was just nothing listed – movies, TV shows. He doesn’t even have a profile on there.

Eric: Oh, yeah. Not even commercials are listed on IMDB, which is a shame. Or music videos. Well, maybe music videos. I’m not sure.

Andrew: He’s a nobody.

Laura: Yeah, I do wonder how old he is because in the book we see Tom Riddle as an 11-year old and then as a young adult.

Eric: Yeah. We see him through various stages of life.

Laura: So, yeah.

Eric: I don’t want Christian Coulson to play 11-old Tom Riddle, but I wouldn’t have minded–I was actually supporting him being the 25-year old one, or something like that. I mean, if it can’t be done, or whatever–but they’ve got to cast several Riddles, is the thing, don’t they?

Andrew: Right.

Laura: Yeah, that’s what I would think.

Andrew: Well, I was looking at Christian Coulson’s IMDB and he’s not doing anything right now, at least when it comes to movies or TV shows. He has been doing things like this year and last year, but they’re all complete. He has no films in pre-production or currently filming, so I guess some people just aren’t interested in coming back, or maybe they didn’t even approach him. Who knows. But they do need him.

Eric: Yeah, well, it could help. Some little continuity between the films. We’ve been talking about that before on the show.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Just some general kind of principles that would help it move along a little bit easier.

Andrew: Right. Okay, moving along, unless anyone had any other news they want to discuss?

Eric: I don’t – news, let’s take a look at the schedule.

Andrew: Professor McGonagall’s birthday, but other than that, there really isn’t much going on.

Jerry: Book auction? I don’t think any of our listeners are in the market for 40,000 pounds.

Announcements: Vote on Podcast Alley

Andrew: Yeah. There’s book auctions all the time, too, so we really never talk about those. All right, I guess that’s it. Moving on to announcements now, don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. It is a new month, as the co-hosts mentioned last week. And by looking at the top ten list, we’re number five right now.

Eric: Hooray.

Andrew: That’s okay, I guess. We used to be number one.

Laura: Who are we under?

Andrew: Nobody Likes Onions. We’re under the Super Secret Backstage Show, whatever the heck that is. Keith and the Girl is number two, Free Talk Live is number one.

Laura: Okay.

Andrew: So, we encourage everyone to please place their vote over at Podcast Alley. We like being in the top ten list because Podcast Alley is one of the sites that a lot of press go to to check out what’s hot in podcasting, and we like to be featured in news articles because we’re always referred to as those Harry Potter kids, those Harry Potter podcasters. So, be sure to vote for us – hmmm?

Eric: [laughs] I still remember your acceptance speech at the Podcast Awards, Andrew.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Laura: Oh, that was so good.

Andrew: Why the hell did those Harry Potter kids?

Eric: I know what you’re thinking. How did Harry Potter – yeah. It was great.

Andrew: How the hell – yeah. I should have been like how the heck did those Harry – because I’m sure that was what they were all really thinking.

Eric: Well, I think you shocked the wine-tasting guys. The wine-tasting guys were all really shocked that you said that.

Andrew: Really? Why? They taste wine. And they’re shocked at Harry – whatever.

Announcements: MuggleCast Down Under

Eric: Okay, next announcement. Mugglecast Down Under, guys. Listen, everybody. Mugglecast Down Under. Mugglecast in Australia. T-shirts now available for pre-order. Yes, I’m reading this from a script. Listen, guys, t-shirts for the event are now available. What we’re doing is we’re pre-ordering them because actually we’re giving away these t-shirts–well, not giving them away, but we are selling them. They’re twenty Australian dollars each. What they’re doing is they’re actually funding the shows. So just quick information, we have about three hundred people we’re expecting to attend, but the problem with that is venues are quite tricky to find. We’re still looking for places to accommodate our rising numbers, and pretty much the only way we can do any of this is through pre-ordering t-shirts. Otherwise we have to charge at the door, or something like that. So basically, we have these cool t-shirts ready for you, and they’re actually quite awesome. You can choose from two different colors, and if you would like a t-shirt, please, please, please pre-order ASAP through, and you will get one. You can choose what event you’ll be at. It will be amazing. These shows are going to be great. We have lots of cool stuff planned, and I think the official dates are the 19th of October in Sydney, after school for those people who were worried, the school kids, and the 21st of October in Melbourne, mid-afternoon.

Andrew: Awesome.

Eric: And that’s pretty much it. Mugglecast Down Under in a box.

Andrew: Laura… Thank you, Eric. Laura and I were talking about this earlier, and we realized you really have your act together for this. This is pretty impressive.

Laura: Yeah. It’s really well-organized. I was very impressed.

Andrew: You got quite a good event going on here. Not to say that we didn’t think you could do it, but you got quite the event going on here.

Eric: No, no, no, not at all. And I will ask you guys, as soon as we have a venue, I’m going to ask you guys to try and contribute content. Because depending on what kind of multimedia stuff we can get, I want – if you could record a bit of video or something for the Sydney fans.

Andrew: Yeah, that’d be fun. Just for the Sydney fans.

Laura: Yeah, that’s cool.

Eric: Well, and the Melbourne fans as well. But the Australians are going to want you there, so it’s just natural that you have a hand in the show.

Andrew: Yeah. I’m going to have Steve Erwin in mine.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Well, I might have to edit it.

Andrew: Why?

Eric: Because we’re looking to have a projector screen and stuff at some of the venues, and we’re actually looking in lecture theaters and stuff like that, sort of around the unis is our current status. So…

Jerry: That’s cool.

Andrew: Cool.

Laura: Andrew, you just reminded me of being at the aquarium.

Andrew: Why?

Laura: Do you remember that? When we were at the manta ray tank.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Wait, what? Oh, god. I already know what happened, without knowing the story. It’s horrible.

Announcements: Ringtones and Jamie

Andrew: Hey, don’t forget, Mugglecast ring tones are also available over on I really need to add a link. I’m going to add a link on the Mugglecast website. I just realized that there is no link, so that’s probably why nobody’s getting them right now. So there are Mugglecast ringtones for sale, right now my wizard rock single is – I’m going to get the Mugglecast theme song up there sometime this week as well, so be sure to check them out. They’re only a few dollars, and we only get about half of that, so it goes to supporting the show. So thank you very much if you do purchase one. Another more depressing announcement.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Jamie is going to be off the show for awhile because he is back in school, so he won’t be on for a few weeks. And I’m just saying it because otherwise we’re going to start getting emails once he starts disappearing for a couple weeks. So, just so everyone knows now, he will be off the show until his winter break because internet does not work there at Durham University. Well, his internet connection is not fast.

Jerry: And winter break is about the first week of December.

Eric: You hear that, Durham? You’re slow.

Andrew: However, Pickle Pack members are still getting a dose of Jamie every week because that still works for him.

Eric: Yeah that we can’t exactly…

Laura: When do they go on winter break there?

Andrew: Ummm, early.

Laura: Is it the beginning of December?

Jerry: Yeah about, first week.

Andrew: I’m guessing it’s the beginning…

Jerry: The first week.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Oh, okay. That’s not bad.

Andrew: Yeah, okay. And also just one thing I wanted to touch on quick because we do have all this new studio equipment, well I do here in my room, I just wanted to mention we are starting to consider taking, doing more regular live shows. We actually did a test live show just for Pickle Pack members via Ustream on Friday, and that went over pretty well. We had some technical glitches but it was a test to show, it was a test show to make sure everything is working okay which it seems like it. We’re still ironing out a couple of glitches but once we get through those we should be able to put together some seriously good live broadcasts. And we want to know what everyone thinks about that, maybe like once a month doing a live show. And one of the things we started considering as of lately was having Eric and Laura and even Micah come over to my house to record together, because if we’re all together to record, not only would we interact a lot better but it would also sound a lot better. I mean these sounds – these episodes do sound pretty good edited but just the interaction you would notice better chemistry, better quality, just overall a better show.

[Everyone laughs]

Muggle Mail: Refilling Basin

Andrew: Okay, yeah, let’s move on to some Muggle Mail now…

Eric: Ooo.

Andrew: …because you guys don’t want to call them rebuttals, I don’t know. I guess this first email is a rebuttal.

Eric: From Kevin, age 19, location Germany. Subject is the refilling basin, not an inconsistency. Heard about us from the MuggleNet main page.

“In episode 115, Laura, Kevin, and Eric were talking about the Horcrux in the cave and how Voldemort had to refill the basin when he’d made Kreacher drink the poison. You said it was a small inconsistency but it doesn’t necessarily have to be one. You have to realize that the locket wasn’t in the basin before Kreacher had emptied it. Voldemort only dropped it there afterwards (see chapter 10). This leads me to the thought that whatever potion was in the basin in the first place was probably not exactly the same one Regulus and Dumbledore drank later. It might not have even been made by Voldemort because why would he fill the basin without putting his Horcrux in first. So, I think he used a potion which would refill itself after someone drank it and he filled the basin with it for the first time at his trip with Kreacher. I know I might be nitpicking, but it’s fun.”

And then there’s a little emoticon.

“Hear you all, love the show, Kevin.”

Laura: Hmmm…

Jerry: I would have thought that Voldemort would’ve put potion in first so to make Kreacher drink it just to test the potions efficiency.

Laura: Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Eric: Does he test his own work? Does he have faith in his own kind of thing by now? Is he suave in his step?

Jerry: Depends on how egotistical he was then, doesn’t it?

Eric: Yeah, it does.

Muggle Mail: Micah Not Seeing Order of the Phoenix Early

Andrew: Yeah. The next rebuttal comes from Laurel, 22, of New York. She writes:

“Just wanted to send a note in defense of Micah not having seen the most recent movie right when it came out.”

Because as most people know we were ragging on Micah a couple days ago or a couple weeks ago for not seeing the show. Well, you guys were. Sorry, not seeing the movie yet.

Laura: Yeah, it was me and Jamie.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

“A person’s love of a book, any book, cannot be measured by their excitement, or lack thereof, to see the movie. That would sort of be like saying that a person doesn’t legitimately enjoy Charles Dickens writing if they weren’t first in line to see ‘Great Expectations.’ I consider myself a very devoted fan of the ‘Harry Potter’ series and read all of the books many times, but I have not yet felt any need to see all of the movies. I did see the first movie and was rather disappointed and so I skipped the next few and only saw the most recent because a rather attractive guy asked me to go with him.”


Laura: Oooh.

Andrew: “Anyway, the point is, give him a break guys. The movie doesn’t even compare to the books. Apples and Oranges, folks.” Ummm, I like to stick up for…

Laura: Okay…

Andrew: …Laura and Jamie right off the bat and say that they were just playing.

Laura: Yeah, we really weren’t being serious. And also, we do run a Harry Potter talk show, so…

Andrew: Yeah, so it is important…

Eric: We are expected to see this kind of stuff. But at the same time I mean I guess apples and oranges. But yeah, wow, that’s interesting seeing the first movie and being so disappointed that you wait until the fifth. Huh.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: And only because an attractive guy asked you out.

Eric: Yeah, well clearly there’s other things…

Laura: That’s a good reason to go.

Eric: …on your mind, which is great you’re a more well rounded human being than us geeks, but…

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Eric: …that’s sad. Ummm, anyway…

Andrew: I mean so it was just something I wanted to point out, that we’re not – most of the time we joke on here and I don’t know if you guys know Jamie very well but when he tends to run into like a good joke or something he likes to run with it and keep going with it, for the duration of an episode. Say like the Prison Break thing, or this. There’s other examples, I can’t just…

Laura: Yeah, and we all like to give each other a hard time like…

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Because we’re all friends here so…

Andrew: Yeah and it was funny because once, while I was editing that show Micah saw it, he wanted to see it before I actually released the show because he was afraid that he would get too much crap about that, so…

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Andrew: So, there’s also a second part of this email that Laura and I guess the rest – and I sort of wanted to address too.

Laura: Yeah.

Muggle Mail: Harry’s Fate

Andrew: “There’s one other little thing that I thought I’d mention since I am writing in and it has been bugging me for quite a while. I can’t remember which host said this but before Deathly Hallows came out, and you all were debating whether or not Harry would die, it was mentioned several times that basically once he killed Voldemort, Harry wouldn’t have anything to live for since Dumbledore, Sirius, and his parents were dead. So he might as well kick it. That sentiment struck me as unbelievably heartless and really disgustingly insensitive. Millions of people grow up without parents or family, but God willing, they have to move on. Hopefully, putting the worst of it behind them and get through it. I would like to think that a character, about whom seven books have been written, countless website devoted to, and who is the subject of your very own podcast, would have the strength of will to overcome such a misfortune and go on to lead a healthy life. I just hate to think of any people or children out there who have suffered the loss of their family and loved ones hearing you guys saying that they don’t have anything to live for. Maybe an apology would be in order. Anyway, sorry for the overall critical tone of this e-mail. I really do like your podcast and have enjoyed your debates and speculations on the books. Keep on keeping on. Cheers, Laurel.”

Eric: Okay, whereas I was thinking – whereas we weren’t really joking about Micah, we were really serious he’s a loser for not seeing the movies, we were actually joking about this whole Harry should kick the bucket thing. I don’t know who said it, I don’t think it was me, but we are not condoning that people with no parents and no family should die and that’s…

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: …that’s just the bottom line. That actually was a joke. I’m sure, I’m sure it was a joke. Without knowing who said it, I know that it was a joke.

Andrew: It sounds like something I would say. I don’t know.

Laura: Well, and also remember during the lead up to Book 7, we had the debate segment a lot and a lot of what the debate segment was surrounded around was stuff like should Harry live or should Harry die. So, and what I think listeners should know is that we would randomly be assigned sides to these issues and we had to argue them even if we didn’t agree with them. So it wasn’t necessarily a matter of I do think Harry should die, it’s a matter of oh we’re having this debate to bring forth different viewpoints so I’m going to argue that Harry has to die. It’s not actually that we thought he should. You know?

Andrew: Right.

Eric: And I assure the world that we’re all glad that he didn’t.

Laura: He… uh yeah, okay. Again I bawled through the whole chapter where I thought he was going to. I was very upset.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: I was relieved when he didn’t and I really don’t think that – even if anybody on the show did say that Harry, who is a fictional character, should die because they feel like most of his loved ones are dead and that I don’t know if they would think that he would be reunited with them in the after world, that’s the only way I could think of anybody actually justifying that, I really don’t think that can actually be linked to us saying that real people have nothing to live for if their family’s dead.

Eric: That is well, yeah. That’s true. That’s an inappropriate connection.

Laura: I don’t think anybody on this show would ever say that.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, so we’ll move on from that, but every once in a while we like to clear things up.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: That was one thing.

Muggle Mail: Pettigrew in Gryffindor?

Eric: From Zarah, age 14, location West Plains Montana. Right, MO?

Andrew: Missouri! Missouri!

Eric: Oh, what?

Andrew: Oh come on. You’ve been out of this country way too long.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Time to come back buddy.

Eric: What’s Montana then? MA?

Jerry: Oooh.

Andrew: MN.

Eric: MN? That’s Minnesota dude.

Andrew: Is it?

Eric: Yes, it’s Minnesota.

Andrew: I’m pretty sure.

Eric: Jerry, Jerry, resident Brit, look it up. Find out what MO is. In the mean time…

Laura: MO is Missouri.

Eric: [laughs] “Why was Pettigrew in Gryffindor? On Episode 115 I really liked Micah’s explanation of why Pettigrew was a Gryffindor.”

Me too.

“However, as I was listening to the voicemail I immediately thought of Dumbledore’s quote in ‘Deathly Hallows.’ Sometimes I think we sort too early. I’m not saying Dumbledore was referring to Pettigrew as well as Snape, but it is possible” – or rather – “is it possible that Pettigrew was braver when he was 11, and that he grew to be a coward as he aged. I’d love to hear what you think, and Laura you’re my favorite. Pickles, Zarah.”

Laura: Awww, thank you.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I just want to clear up real quick, Minnesota is MN, Missouri is MO, Montana is MT.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: So does that mean I was right the entire time? [laughs] Ha! Oh yeah!

Andrew: No.

Eric: 10 years in a foreign country, American-ness still intact!

Andrew: What are you talking about?

Laura: What?

Andrew: What are you – you said Montana.

Laura: [laughs] Montana.

Eric: Yeah, was MO.

Andrew: No!

Laura: No.

Andrew: MO is Missouri.

Laura: It’s Missouri. [laughs]

Eric: You said MT was…

Jerry: I’m having fun.

Andrew: No, MT is Montana.

[Laura laughs]

Jerry: Listeneres will judge.

Andrew: I’m looking at the United States Postal Service website.

Eric: It’s your neck if it’s MA.

Andrew: It’s not MA. Laura did I say that? Jerry?

Laura: No, you said it right.

Andrew: Yeah, I had it right.

Eric: Sorry. Sorry, Missouri is – well I was right about Minnesota though. Minnesota is MN.

Andrew: I said Minnesota is.

[Laura laughs]

Whatever. No. Okay maybe you were right about that I thought Montana was MN.

Eric: But we’re both wrong. We’re both wrong, and that’s okay.

Andrew: Well, ut you were wrong first. So, I beat someone.

Eric: I was, yes, I was. I concede.

Andrew: Okay. Next rebuttal, Lisa, 27 of Charlotte – oh, was there anything else to talk about, about that other e-mail?

Laura: Ummm.

Eric: Just Dumbledore and asking whether or not that related to Pettigrew, if he was born a coward or if he was raised a coward.

Andrew: Oh right, right, right. I think we’ve talked about this on the show, people can change.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I mean, especially in the beginning of their magical career ’til the end. Like…

Eric: So do you think…

Andrew: I think that’s why we’re saying the Sorting Hat is almost flawed because, you know?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It sorts you – but, then again, is it smart enough to really put you in the right house through your entire seven-year career?

Laura: Yeah, I mean it can’t really tell what you’re going to grow up to be necessarily. I mean, there’s no proof that Pettigrew was going to grow up and end up betraying his friends to their deaths. So….

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Hmmm. Then again, he could have chose…

Jerry: Hmmm.

Eric: As we talked about last week, there was a pretty good point raised about how he could choose to go to Gryffindor because you know, he didn’t want to be with the scary Slytherins, but at the same time you know, he ended up in the house of their mortal enemies, so. Yeah.

Muggle Mail: Expelliarmus

Andrew: Right. Next rebuttal comes from Lisa, 27, from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Eric: What was that Andrew? Next rebuttal?

Andrew: Next MuggleMail. Whatever. I’m going to say rebuttals forever when I do that transition.

Eric: Fair enough.

Andrew: Next MuggleMail,Lisa, 27 from Charlotte, NC, that’s North Carolina for those of us living in New Zealand and completely lost touch with the United States.

[Eric laughs]

“There was an argument about whether Harry defeating Voldemort with the Expelliarmus spell was not a good ending. Well, JKR set us up to know how very important that spell was in one single line. Please remember when the DA first got together in ‘Order of the Phoenix’ and Harry wanted to teach them to disarm, and one of them thought it was a waste of time. Harry said that the spell had saved his life. There’s your connection, the spell saves his life and therefore it is important. I guess I kind of look at it as foreshadowing, what do you think? Next I agree with Laura, Voldemort was too smart for his own good. It’s like Einstein, he was a genius but couldn’t write a grocery list. Also, Eric have a Coke and smile man, you seem uptight!”

[Laura and Eric laugh]

I don’t think so.

Eric: Well, thank you Andrew, no no I – I’m still not convinced though.

Andrew: Bad week?

Eric: I’m still not convinced.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: I mean, I love the scene in Order of the Phoenix when, it was when Zacharias Smith was in the DA and he was talking about, oh you know we’re going to learn how to use Expelliarmus and that’s going to save our life, and Harry just with that snappy retort like, it saved mine last year. That was good, but I didn’t expect Jo to pull that card for the next two books. I mean, I thought it was a good sort of, you know, realization, but just the fact that the final battle ended in Expelliarmus is still and may always be just disappointing for me. I’m sorry I feel that way. I’m really sorry Lisa from NC, North Carolina, now that I’m knowing the postal things again. I’m sorry, but I think I’ll always feel that Expelliarmus was a rip off, and I’ll always feel like it was used too many times, just like Polyjuice Potion and stuff. I just wish it were different, that’s all.

Andrew: But I think Lisa provides a good argument, I mean.

Laura: Yeah, I think so too.

Eric: What, that it saved his life there, therefore it should be used every single time Harry has to escape a battle?

Andrew: I don’t… I don’t…

Laura: No, but it is a nice little bit of foreshadowing.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Like Harry specifically said “it saved me from him last summer” so I mean it saved him from Voldemort who had just gotten his body back, and was somewhat at the height of his newly-restored power because Harry didn’t really know anything about Horcruxes at that time.

Andrew: Right, right.

Eric: Well…

Laura: He didn’t have the knowledge that he did in Book 7, so…

Eric: Can you call it foreshadowing, or just a reoccurring plot theme, or plot device, or something. You know, plot device. Harry needs to defeat a wizard that’s over competent for him, Expelliarmus!

Laura: Well it could be, yeah, it can be a recurring plot device that’s also used for foreshadowing.

Eric: Yeah, I’m just trying to – see, I’m trying to strip everything that I thought would be foreshadowed as opposed to everything that turned out wasn’t, so for instance we can’t really talk about certain things about the chamber. There were certain references people picked out to the Chamber of Secrets in Book 5 and 6 thinking that it was going to be a really big thing in Book 7 and it wasn’t, and so a lot of people I just know were disappointed. I mean, I guess this rebuttal is pretty – this rebuttal is alright. Sorry, I seem so uptight! I should sing and dance a little bit more. If you guys watch my Blickles, I sing and dance all the time. But you know, whatever.

Muggle Mail: Attendance in Book 7

Andrew: One final e-mail this week, comes from Rebecca, 20 of Boone, North Carolina. She writes:

“Hey guys, love the show! I’m listening to Episode 115 right now, and you brought up the point that why would parents of any normal, ie non DA or kid of a Death Eater student, allow them to remain at Hogwarts while it was obviously overrun by dark magic. I’m currently rereading Book 7 and on page 210, Lupin tells the trio, attendance to Hogwarts is now compulsory for every young witch and wizard. It’s a change, because it was never obligatory before. Thanks a lot for the awesome podcast, y’all.”

Okay, well thanks for clearing that up.

Eric: Yeah, that was intelligent.

Laura: Yup.

Andrew: A little sarcasm, what?

Eric: No, I was not being sarcastic.

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: Why do people think I’m being sarcastic? That’s why a lot of people really – no no, that was really intelligent, that was…

Jerry: Maybe you’re picking up a New Zealand tinge in your voice, and it’s making you come off a bit sarcastic.

Eric: You know, I hear Australians are the most sarcastic people in the world. I don’t know if that’s true.

Jerry: Mhm.

Eric: They also talk about goats a lot, but that’s a side reference.

[Jerry and Eric laugh]

Just the Australians I’ve met working for this event. But apparently sarcasm – no, but I really liked that. That was – and that quote, I don’t know how they would make people go to Hogwarts. That’s cool that they are, but that’s just, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. So, that’s good.

Main Discussion: The Morality of Dumbledore

Andrew: Yeah, so this week, our main discussion, quit a lengthy and sure to be interesting discussion written up by Eric.

Eric: Woot!

Andrew: The Morality of Dumbledore a.k.a. the Magical Pig. Am I missing something here?

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Yeah, I don’t…

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: No, it is like Harry Plopper from The Simspons Movie. But that is what I thought of when I wrote “The Magical Pig” which was the original title of this discussion.

Andrew: Oh okay.

Eric: You guys it will make sense in a while I will tell you.

Jerry: Okay.

Eric: It is time to reach a conclusion here as we have seen seven books of happenings to guide us. Few episodes – okay, blah. few episodes ago we were asked if it was “Moral” the Dumbledore may have been and I quote “Raising Harry like a pig for slaughter,” do you guys get it now. And are you familiar with the term?

Laura: Yeah.

Jerry: Mhm, vaguely.

Eric: “The Magical Pig.”

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Dumbledore is raising Harry for slaughter, okay. It is true that in seven books Harry has Dumbledore guiding him subtly and not so subtly until finally becoming the one that maps out his entire fate. Therefore, was it morally correct encouraging Harry psyching him into battling Voldemort when the outcome was likely to be Harry’s own death or is Harry was the only one who could defeat Voldemort, is it good that Dumbledore bestowed so much care and guidance, love that Dumbledore showed in raising Harry to fight that it overrules anything bad or was Dumbledore just saving his own skin or putting the Wizarding World before a boy? What do you guys think, just generally on the side?

Andrew: But was it likely? Was the outcome likely to be Harry’s own death?

Eric: Well, I think it was. Wasn’t it?

Andrew: When we go back to point one?

Eric: Well, ever since the day…

Laura: Well, yeah.

Eric: …of the prophecy “No one can live while the other survives.”

Andrew: Well, I don’t see how it is likely if he would end up living throughout the story anyway.

Eric: He died. You remember.

Laura: Well, I think…

Eric: He did die.

Laura: …no he did not die.

Andrew: He didn’t die. He was in Limbo. He came close I guess you can say.

Laura: Yeah he was between worlds, but I think a lot of the point was that Dumbledore had to be very, I guess, categorical in his raising of Harry. Like, instilling in him the unconditional moral obligation that was binding in every circumstance. And it was not dependent at all upon Harry’s purpose. So like, Harry could not know that he had to die or else that might have changed his perception of how he should fight up until that point. Because, but Dumbledore not telling – by Dumbledore not allowing Harry to have that knowledge until the last possible minute, it really made all the difference. Because Harry really was not looking toward to the final battle as “I have to die” in Book 4. He was looking towards, as “I have to defeat Voldemort.” So, he does not have the whole idea of his death looming over him. Which I think was a big crucial part of this.

Eric: Well…

Jerry: It definitely is a case of knowing something about yourself affecting the way you see the situation. I mean, I have just been reading – not to make a tangent here – His Dark Materials and that’s also got permissive about the main character having a destiny to fulfill that is they knew for themselves it would change the entire course of the experience.

Eric: Well, that’s is the thing. So much of Harry’s destiny wasn’t certain it just seems that Dumbledore is a manipulating old man. Maybe we were meant to think that in light of Book 7 but it just seems that Dumbledore manipulated Harry quite a bit and it does not even matter not telling him his destiny that he could face his destiny because from what Dumbledore said a lot of the prophecy was, you know, kind of set in store only if Voldemort acted on it and Voldemort would always choose to act on it and sort of other stuff would happen and it was not entirely clear. So what I have done is I have mapped out some examples of times in the book when Harry looked up to Dumbledore. So, all you guys have this so I would not mind if you guys take turns reading so it is not all me talking. So, Laura?

MuggleCast 116 Transcript (continued)

Mirror of Erised

Laura: Well, first of all what we have here is that Dumbledore saw his family in the Mirror of Erised just as Harry had and he lied about what he saw. He told Harry that he saw socks and so by doing this he was keeping a distance from Harry?

Andrew: [laughs] But is it a lie though? Like, it is so stupid that Harry’s…

Eric: Well no, it’s not.

Andrew: …he is joking isn’t he?

Eric: [laughs] and it is funny I guess I should not have made the first point, He lied about socks [laughs] for the discussion, but…

Laura: But, I do not think that the point here is that he was trying to distance himself from Harry but I think that it was very painful for Dumbledore to look in the mirror…

Andrew: Oh yeah.

Laura: …and see his family there.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It is probably not something that he wanted to talk about.

Jerry: Mhm.

Laura: And Harry even noted that it had been a very personal question.

Dishonesty Early On

Eric: Okay. Okay so how about then, and this is the first disappointment I had. Number two, at the end of Book one in the hospital wing, Harry asked him flat out the first question and it references later in the books, he asked why Voldemort wanted to kill him and Dumbledore does not really tell him and that really is understandable. He justified it in Book 5, was it? That Harry was too young to know of the prophecy, I am kind of okay with that but lets move on to the Book 2 events.

Laura: Really?

Eric: Yeah might be, might be. [laughs]

Laura: Well see, I am kind of surprised that you would say that because I love the way that she did it in the book think the point was to show that Dumbledore was not perfect and to take – I guess the best move that he could have taken would have been to keep Harry informed about the prophecy from the start probably. Honesty is the best policy.

Eric: Hm.

Laura: So, when you look at Dumbledore, like if that were a real life scenario that would be a huge problem but he waited five years until after Voldemort had come back and Voldemort had killed people that Harry cared about to actually tell Harry what his….

Eric: Well, wait a minute you are right. Wait a minute, he only told Harry about the prophecy after Sirius was dead.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: So maybe there is more to be gained by this whole – Laura you are right. You bring life into my own eyes, I appreciate well…

Laura: Well, I think the point is that Dumbledore was human and made mistakes.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: And his mistake was he cared too much. And he did not want to worry Harry. So…

Eric: In this main discussion I do not want to just say that Dumbledore is a flawed character. I agree with that. I am sure we all agree with that now. I want to determine that Dumbledore was, not sinister but seriously flawed. Beyond the sort the compassion of an old man. Some of this stuff as the title or the ex-title says, “Harry was raised like a pig for slaughter.” Dumbledore just basically focused all of his attention to Voldemort and that is all Harry could think about and often times ignored Harry and treated him “questionably.”

Back to the Mirror

Andrew: Yeah. I sort of want to – are we going to go to all these points and try to defend Dumbledore too? Because, for the first point I sort of want to stick up for Dumbledore and say that Harry was too young at the end of Sorcerer’s Stone when they were looking into the Mirror of Erised. I think that one is excusable, you cannot go into details with Harry at that point.

Eric: Well, Dumbledore could have warmed up to him and said, “You know I see my family too. We come from similar families and I know what it is like to lose a brother too.” You know? He could have, you know, lose a…

Andrew: “And, that is that.”

Eric: They could have said that.

Andrew: “Tell you more six years from now.”

Laura: Yeah, but also think about the student-teacher relationship.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: And I mean…

Andrew: You have to keep the distance.

Laura: …obviously that changed a lot as the books went on as things got more serious, but I am sure at that point Dumbledore was thinking about protecting Harry by not becoming overly-involved in his life because what else could to do to Harry Potter to make Voldemort want to kill him more.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: …than being best friends with Dumbledore.

Eric: That is true.

Jerry: Well, I think we can safely say though, that even if Dumbledore hadn’t talked to Harry about [break in audio] and Dumbledore visits the young Tom Riddle in the orphanage in that scene, and Tom Riddle asks him if Dumbledore is going to keep and eye on him, and Dumbledore says, “Of course.” I’m sure Tom Riddle didn’t know most of the time that Dumbledore was thinking about him, but I’m sure he was.

Laura: Yeah, that’s true.

Eric: Good point, Jerry.

Asking For Answers in Book 2

Andrew: In Book 2, Dumbledore does not confide in Harry, but instead asks Harry to confide in him to guilt Harry to be entirely open with him.

Laura: What are you talking about?

Andrew: Yeah, what are you talking about?

Eric: Do you remember the scene, well at least in the movie, where Dumbledore asks Harry, “Do you have anything you wish to tell me?” And Harry really feels guilty that he is not telling Dumbledore about the voices he is hearing in the corridores.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: Oh yeah.

Laura: Right, yeah, that was in the book.

Andrew: Did that happen in the book?

Eric: It’s in the book as well.

Laura: Yeah, I think so.

Eric: It seems that Harry only found out that the Chamber was openned through Dobby, through Collin Crevey in the hospital wing that night, and maybe it was Dumbledore’s intentional wording to say that the Chamber of Secrets has been openned again, but it just seems like sort of an off hand thing where Dumbledore lets Harry get up to his own stuff, but then when it comes time and Harry actually does find the culprit, as he tends to do, it just seems like Dumbledore is like, “Well have a way at it, Harry.” You know? And he just let’s Harry deal with everything, and it is one thing to let Harry be free, but Dumbledore really could have invested a little bit more time in not only just talking to Harry, but Dumbledore could have had a bigger presence in the outcome of Book 2, I think. Not that Harry needed him there, because he did fine on his own, but I think it would have been a lot less dangerous for a 12-year old in the Chamber of Secrets with a basalisk if Dumbledore was on his side. We see this great scene in Book 6 where he says, “I am with you Harry,” and there is this whole Dumbledore-Harry thing. I am saying that could have happened as early as Book 2. If anything, Dumbledore the headmaster of the school, knowing so much about the school and sort of leaving Harry to his own accord with Hermoine Granger who thank god wasn’t killed, but petrified searching the library and finding out what the creature was. I’m saying Dumbledore could have had a little bit more of a hand in that, don’t you guys think?

Andrew: I guess so.

Laura: So, you’re basically you are saying that Dumbledore should have been more involved in the investigation that the trio was doing in the Chamber?

Eric: In Book 2 it’s interesting how Dumbledore behaves, because of all the uh – when Fawks bursts into flames and Harry get’s sent to his office after the Justin Finch-Fletchly incident, he basically says, “I don’t suspect you, but I’d like you to tell me everything you know.” That’s like sucking Harry dry for information and not giving any in return in a way. I mean…

Laura: Well…

Eric: …he gets his concent sort of thing where he is like, “I am not going to convict you, blah, blah, blah,” but it just seems like there is some part of Dumbledore that is never fully explained about why he doesn’t really care as such. He has his own headmaster duties to attend to I’m sure, but if the whole thing is about preparing for Voldemort, Dumbledore could have been doing it a lot earlier than he was. Maybe that is a character flaw.

Andrew: I think if Dumbledore were to get involved with the trio’s discovery of the Chamber of Secrets and learning more about it, I think he would have been either too afraid to give them too much information or just he didn’t want to help them, because again the student-teacher relationship, helping them get into the Chamber of Secrets and discover it, he would – what’s the wor for it?

Eric: I’m not saying he could help them, I’m saying he could…

Andrew: He would approve of it.

Eric: I’m saying he could prevent them. He could find it first or something. In a way, Dumbledore might not have known that Harry could speak parseltongue until at least the event at the dueling club, but I think that it just would make sense, even in the myth and the lore of the Chamber – a monster that only the heir of Slytherin could control, Dumbledore knew by this point that Voldemort was the heir of Slytherin or the current heir of Slytherin or highly suspected him or something, and there should just have been a little more caution taken by Dumbledore. We don’t know what steps Dumbledore took in the school. The school was facing closure.

Jerry: Mhm.

Eric: Dumbledore himself was expelled, in what? You didn’t hear it in Two? As early as Year 2, it seems like there is merrit in all of these things that the Ministry is saying. I mean all these attacks and Dumbledore is just sitting there.

Andrew: Yeah…

Laura: I just can’t help but wonder what else he could do. I just don’t feel like that even if he were willing to help the trio find the Chamber, I don’t think that they would have confided that in him.

Eric: I don’t think that they – and that’s fair enough. He did ask Harry to confide in him. Harry said “no,” and that’s a lie. You are right in a way, but additionally, Dumbledore could find the cave, and know what you had to do to open the cave, terrific, how to pull the boat even though you can’t see the chain, and that’s not enough. He’s not a Parseltongue. I do think, it just seems that Harry, Dumbeldore lets Harry do his discovering all year, but it just doesn’t seem very wise as a parental figure or as the headmaster of a school to let your students go in danger without first knowing the extent of it yourself is quite dangerous, and no matter what Dumbledore says about wanting to give Harry a fighting chance, it just doesn’t seem all that practical.

Jerry: I guess what you have to…

Andrew: Maybe Dumbledore… Yeah?

Jerry: I guess what you have to say is that looking past the actual characters themselves, if Dumbledore had all the answers and helped Harry along it wouldn’t have been a very good book, would it? It would be hardly any character development and there would be hardly any story.

Laura: That’s the thing.

Eric: Oh Jerry! Don’t tell me it wouldn’t have made a good book!

[Jerry laughs]

Eric: It would have made a great book.

Jerry: It would have been a lot shorter.

Andrew: Maybe Dumbledore would have stepped in if he had realized they weren’t doing what had to be done. Or maybe he was keeping an eye on them and checking in to see what they were up to. And plus, he needs to let Harry do these things on his own so that he can be prepared for fighting Voldemort in the end.

Eric: That is exactly what we are talking about, Andrew.

Andrew: What?

Eric: We are talking about raising Harry as a pig for the slaughter, so is Dumbledore or isn’t Dumbledore doing that?

Andrew: Dumbledore…

Jerry: I think if he was raising him as a pig for the slaughter, he wouldn’t have done anything to help him, not anything.If he wanted to…

Eric: Why not?

Jerry: …he would have stopped adventuring because all that stuff, built up his courage and the scars. Dumbledore would have wanted to raise him as a placid pig.

Harry “The Fighter” Serves Everyone’s Best Interest

Eric: Well why not? It’s in everybody’s best interest that Harry is a trained fighter. It’s in everybody’s best interest that I’m just taking an interesting stand point here, or trying to. [laughs]

Laura: Right. Well, the question is then, did Dumbledore know that Harry wouldn’t die, because if he knew that Harry wasn’t going to die, then he knew that he wasn’t raising him as a pig for the slaughter. Snape just thought he was. See what I’m saying?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well, I don’t think that he thought he really was going to die, but at the same time you bring up a fair point about…

Laura: Well I think there was though.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Knowing that the blood relation or whatever since Voldemort shared Harry’s blood, it tied him too the earth, etc. The thing is and I don’t think you guys, I mean maybe you guys picked this up, but Dumbledore told Harry he had a choice whether or not he was actually dead at the scene. He could choose to have died at that very moment or he could chosen to go back and feign death for a little bit and then defeat Voldemort, and Harry did choose life which is a great big thing about choices, but because of the ambiguity or because of the choice Harry had to die or to live I still consider that moment as Harry’s death in a way. I mean your heart can stop beating and it can still start up again. You know what I’m saying? So, I choose to believe that Harry did die when that happened, and it’s simply that, you know, he chose to come back and he was able to like Neo – like Neo, you know in the Matrix? But, you know – but I choose to believe he died, and I also choose to believe death was a necessary part of the thing for Harry. That’s my chain of reasoning for that, and even though he did come back.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: I would like to think that Harry did die, and that’s why – that’s where the fuel is coming saying the inevitability of Harry’s death makes him being raised by Dumbledore.

Laura: Well, see, I don’t think he died, though. Because…

Andrew: He died. Jo said this herself, I think.

Laura: Well…

Eric: There are points where Harry’s scar hurts so much that he thinks he’s going to blank out. That’s almost dying, or that’s almost passing out.

Andrew: All right.

Laura: Yeah, that’s kind of far away from dying.

Jerry: Well, I think you can say that part of the soul that’s living inside him died, and perhaps that’s what allowed him to experience that…

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: …near-death experience.

Andrew: That was it, wasn’t it?

Laura: Yeah, but it was a near-death – see, I don’t…

Eric: But, you see, he’s come so close to near-death, is all I’m saying. I want something to make this special in my mind, because he’s gone – Harry’s gone so close to near-death. He’s head has been splitting in two, he’s been possessed, he’s this and that, and the other thing, and it’s just – that’s why I just pass it off as this was a death of Harry’s. I mean it was Harry’s death even if…

Laura: But see…

Eric: Even if he was faking it the entire time, and maintaining consciousness. It was a death of Harry’s, as far as many people are concerned.

Laura: I think the important concept here isn’t necessarily his death, but his willingness to die for those people at Hogwarts, because it wasn’t – I mean, yes, Lily’s death was that act that actually gave Harry the blood protection, but it was her willingness behind it, her absolutely laying her life down, with no questions, that gave Harry that protection, and I think Harry having that same willingness for the people at Hogwarts is really what is important.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: And that’s what protected them, not that he died.

Eric: Did he have this willingness, or that Dumbledore…

Laura: Yes, he…

Eric: Dumbledore himself was dead.

Laura: He walks to his death.

Eric: Everybody else was dead, you know, Harry had nothing to live for in his own mind. And please don’t write in – please, he’s not saying he had nothing to live for.

Laura: Wait a second. Ginny, Ron, Hermione, the Weasley’s minus Fred, they were still all alive.

Eric: I was just proven wrong. I just – I stand corrected.

Jerry: You could have just said Ron.

Eric: Well, Dumbledore himself – I’m saying this could all be an affect of what Dumbledore bestowed in Harry. You know what I’m saying? That’s – that again is the point of the main discussion. I’m saying that all of these thoughts could just be Dumbledore’s inside Harry, and was it moral for Dumbledore to do this to Harry, to make him, you know, not value himself over anybody else, and, you know what? Maybe that’s a trait Harry already had.

Did Dumbledore Brainwash Harry?

Jerry: Are you saying that effectively, Dumbledore brainwashed him?

Andrew: Yeah, he sort of did.

Eric: Well, did he – did he? That’s the question. Did he is the very question and we should just continue this, because we got a lot to get through, but I’ll skip it. I’ll skip it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I mean, because…

Andrew: Well, okay, let’s talk about brainwashing real quick. I don’t – I don’t think he brainwashed him, because he wasn’t really giving him anything.

Laura: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: He was brainwashing in the sense that – well, okay, no. He just wasn’t brainwashing him. He…

Jerry: He was more like conditioning him.

Andrew: He was fooling him.

Eric: Well, hy didn’t he tell him…

Laura: He constantly – he constantly gave Harry a choice.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: A choice? Was that really wise, then? To give Harry a choice all the time if – I mean, if…

Andrew: Yeah, because I think this is all part of his training.

Laura: Yes. This is all part of his training to become, you know, to be able to fight Voldemort.

Eric: I still think it’s like – I just think it’s like giving Harry choices like faking giving him a choice, because he didn’t have a choice, did he? He couldn’t walk away, because Voldemort would always look for Harry. Harry would never be safe. Him and his loved ones, it’s a Spiderman effect. He wouldn’t…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I think he did always allow Harry to go out there and do these things – do all these battles, you know, and in the Chamber of Secrets, in the maze, eventually going to fight Voldemort. But I think that Dumbledore was keeping a close eye on him and was willing and ready to step in if he was ever needed. I mean, you know, like look at Fawkes coming in, in Chamber of Secrets.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Laura: Yeah.

Jerry: He was definitely keeping – I mean we view the events in the book through Harry’s perspective, don’t we? And it’s quite clear that Dumbledore’s keeping a closer eye on Harry than Harry ever realized himself, and therefore, we’re kept in the dark about it too.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: But is that – is that moral? I’m not going to ask that question again, I’m just going to – that’s good though. That’s good. I mean, just let’s – let’s just keep going.

The Issues of Horcruxes

Andrew: Let’s keep moving, and then we’ll answer, “Is it moral?” Next point, Book 3.

Eric: Okay, at Book 2’s conclusion Dumbledore gets all the evidence he needs that Voldemort has a Horcrux.

Andrew: Oh…

Eric: He said that to Harry in Book 5 or Book 6, actually. “I thought I had all the evidence right there at the end of Book 2 when you handed me the diary.” But basically, besides standing up to Lucius Malfoy, he pretty much says his “please and thank yous,” and goes on his jolly way. If Dumbledore had banned – and been particularly harsh about banning Horcruxes, and the knowledge of them, as Slughorn says, Dumbledore is “particularly fierce about that kind of talk, and who-ha.” It seems Dumbledore would have banned them before that point in time, so Dumbledore would have banned the books on Horcruxes just after Voldemort left school, or certainly earlier. So, if – my chain of reasoning is that if Dumbledore knew enough about the sort of area that Voldemort was dipping into, ban Horcruxes and the books on Horcruxes from the school libraries, then it shouldn’t have been that much of an epiphany to Dumbledore about the diary, and I don’t think it was. In all of the story telling, Dumbledore was the one that brought up, you know, “I wish – why was it that Lord Voldemort chose to act through Ginny?” or something, and everybody was shocked, and because nobody had mentioned Voldemort, or Ginny, at that point before, you know what I’m saying?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: So, it’s like Dumbledore just got suspicions, and he got confirmation of suspicions. He basically relied on Harry, in Book 2, to bring him all the evidence he needs that – that Voldemort is making Horcruxes, and it doesn’t seem like that’s safe. I mean, again, it’s Hogwarts…

Andrew: I’m just going to keep on going back to this training thing, because, like, you know, okay, it could come across like Dumbledore’s having Harry do all his dirty work, so to speak, but then Dumbledore’s also doing some dirty work on his own.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: We just don’t really ever hear about it. I mean, like, in Half-Blood Prince, in Order of the Phoenix, we know he’s doing dirty work, we hear that – we hear that he’s up to something, but we don’t know what.

Eric: At least then Harry’s 15. We’re talking about when he’s 12. You know, it’s like the thing. Okay, just like the thing where originally people were saying, “Could 11-year olds find the Sorcerer’s Stone?” Could they, or did Dumbledore want them to? I mean, I think it was an honest mistake that Dumbledore was in London that day, but he did come back and presumably, he actually did save Harry at the end of the first book. Presumably there was some kind of interference with what was left of Quirrell writhing, or whatever.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: And that would be a good point to bring up in this discussion. But just… Hmmm…

Laura: I think – I think something important to remember, though, is that would Dumbledore put such a high amount of responsibility on any 11-year old’s shoulders? No, he wouldn’t. The reason that Harry is different is because Harry had a full-grown wizard mark him as his equal when he was an infant.

Eric: Well…

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: So, automatically, that puts him a step above everyone else.

Andrew: Above everyone… Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Fair point.

Eric: But he’s still a kid. He still needs love. He still needs all sorts of stuff that he hasn’t had and, I mean, Dumbledore felt sorry for him. And I…

Laura: He does, but…

Allowing Harry to Participate in the Triwizard Tournament and Not Recognizing Fake Moody

Eric: I agree that Dumbledore’s compassionate, but let’s continue. In Book 4, the seemingly apparent will of Dumbledore to keep Harry safe, except that it’s under Dumbledore’s order that Harry becomes the unofficial fourth champion. Remember, the founding people of the schools – Beauxbatons and Durmstrang – are kind of pissed at Dumbledore. They think he’s finagling a little bit and – and put Harry’s name in, or whatever. And Dumbledore says, “Well you know, the rules of the Goblet say whoever comes out must go in the thing.” Dumbledore could’ve kind of stopped Harry…

Laura: Actually, wasn’t that Crouch who said that?

Eric: …from going – from being the fourth tournament, from being the fourth champion, but, and this is what I wrote very biasedly, the culprit would only come out if Harry played the game and Dumbledore went all year talking to Moody without realizing that he was Barty Crouch Jr. What the heck? Don’t you know your old friend? What else important was he doing Year Four? I mean, what was Dumbledore doing that made him sort of – and Harry was the fourth champion and that was, if you ask me, that was one of the best examples of using Harry as bait. And he did so, so blindly with Moody being or with Barty Crouch Jr. being right next to Dumbledore all year long. I mean, I’m not saying Dumbledore isn’t a flawed character, because he is, but this – this is a serious flaw, I think.

Andrew: Well, the first point about Dumbledore ordering that Harry still be one of – still compete in the Triwizard Tournament. I mean, I just think that’s Dumbledore believing that whatever Triwizard – the Goblet says should be done. Whatever…

Laura: Also…

Andrew: It was the rules.

Laura: Was it really Dumbledore that said that?

Eric: Is it the rules?

Laura: Wasn’t it – wasn’t it Crouch that said “These are the rules, and he has to compete”?

Eric: Maybe it was, but Dumbledore…

Jerry: I think you refer to Crouch in saying…

Andrew: Oh! Oh yeah, yeah. I think Laura’s right. Yeah.

Eric: Hmmm.

Andrew: But I mean, well, then it could be argued that Dumbledore still didn’t object.

Eric: And Dumbledore still didn’t put…

Andrew: Dumbledore knew he was right.

Jerry: We don’t know the level of the bond though, do we? It’s a magical contract – we’re told it’s a magical contract. We don’t know what the level of that is within…

Andrew: That’s true. It’s true.

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Eric: It’s true though. Given what we’ve seen of Dumbledore’s power, I wonder if he could not override it, but…

Andrew: Hell, Dumbledore was probably excited he got in!

Eric: Well, no, no…

Andrew: Maybe a little worried…

Eric: He was scared…

Andrew: But at the same time, he’s training him.

Eric: Andrew…

Andrew: It’s part of his training.

Eric: That’s exactly what I’m saying though. Andrew, haven’t you seen the movie? “DID YOU PUT YOUR NAME IN THE GOBLET?!” [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that’s a Michael Gambon touch.

Jerry: Wow!

Eric: Scared for Harry. And by the way, we’re skipping movie and Book 3 because I really had no complaints about Book 3 and Dumbledore. That was all right. He fixed everything with the time.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: nd Movie 3, I just wrote down the casting of Michael Gambon, but…

Andrew: See? See? Dumbledore had to step in. He had to step in.

Eric: Well, no. Book 3, I just argue it’s still one of the best books, so I don’t have a lot fo complaints about Dumbledore’s behavior. At the same time, though, Dumbledore didn’t object and Dumbledore – I mean, this is the Triwizard Tournament. You know, Dumbledore himself puts the age restriction that prevents Fred and George from putting their names in. I mean, Dumbledore himself protects this thing and then once Harry gets chosen, he lets him waltz right up. I mean, is that not – do I have no basis for any kind of evidence here? Any kind of argument?

Laura: I think Dumbledore was somewhat flabbergasted that Harry’s name came out fo the Goblet. Like, that’s – when you think about scenes that they copied almost exactly from the book onto the screen, that was one of them – where Dumbledore just sat there and stared at him.

Eric: Yeah, but it’s times like those when you have to act.

Laura: How did this happen?

Eric: It’s times like those when that’s where you have to do these things.

Laura: Yeah, but he – he’s not going to act in front of 500 students…

Eric: He did in the movie!

Laura: In the middle of the Great Hall.

Eric: He backed him up into the big trophy and started yelling at him.

Laura: No! He waited until they were somewhere private.

Jerry: Yeah.

Laura: That he didn’t have to yell at him in front of everyone.

Eric: Still, in the book he was like “Okay, Harry, please just tell me you didn’t put your name in the Goblet.” And most mysterious is the – the personage that he adopted really. But I still think, I mean – and going all year with Moody, with Barty Crouch Jr. as Professor Moody, that is actually a character flaw. I mean, that’s – that’s pretty intense, I think. No matter…

Laura: Oh, he was far too trusting.

Eric: Well…

Jerry: Hm.

Laura: But that’s what we’ve known about him all along.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: And that’s fair enough. So now…

Andrew: Yeah.

Harry Neglected in Book 5

Eric: Book 5. We found out at the end of the book that Dumbledore didn’t really want to be around Harry because he thought it might arise the dragon – the dragon that’s inside Harry whenever he looks, sort of, Dumbledore in the eyes because Voldemort’s looking through Harry’s eyes, or even if he’s not, the temptingness would draw Harry over the edge given the light of the new connection established between Harry and Voldemort. Now, but at the same time, you have to admit, when Book 5 opens, there does seem to be a serious amount of – well, a serious lack of news for Harry. He’s really pissed nobody’s writing to him about the slightest thing. Would it not be possible, and this is my question for Book 5, for anybody to have written in a letter and say, you know, “Harry, I suspect Voldemort can see into your mind and, therefore, it would be dangerous for me to contact you.”? A simple explanation like that…

Laura: Well…

Jerry: That would freak him the hell out though, wouldn’t it?

Eric: And again, and again, that’s about – I can see a response about letting Voldemort know how much you know, but I’m trying to see if there’s any kind of thing that could be done about Harry’s ignorance because nobody was telling him and it was really not making matters worse or better for anyone that Harry was left in the dark.

Andrew: I agree with that. Laura, were you going to bring up a point?

Laura: Well, I was going to say that if you send Harry a letter that explicitly says, “Hey, by the way, I think Voldemort can see in your mind, so I’m not going to talk to you”…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Is that any more awkward that any of the questions he would have had to face later?

Laura: If Voldemort…

Eric: I mean…

Laura: Well, it’s not a matter – it’s not a matter of awkwardness. It’s a matter of if Voldemort could see into Harry’s mind at that point and realize what the letter said…

Eric: Yeah. He would realize the connection himself.

Laura: Then that would be – that would be a problem. And he would have realized the connection much earlier in the book.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: And it was just speculation, but I think Dumbledore should have included Occlumency way before the attack on Arthur Weasley. But I mean then, one would – one would argue that he wouldn’t…

Laura: Oh, yeah. Oh, definitely.

Eric: Have seen the attack on Arthur Weasley and that would be a big plot point and Weasley would have died and Tonks and Remus would be with their happy child .

Andrew: Exactly.

Jerry: There would be lots of happy rainbows and sunshine.

Eric: But, yeah…

Andrew: Well, wait, wait, wait. I mean, Jo was planning on killing Arthur anyway. So maybe he was going to give him the lessons beforehand in, like, the original – one of the original layouts for the book.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Well, no. I think for the plot of the book, I don’t think he was going to give him lessons. I’m saying, assuming, and this is the whole thing, I guess, accepting that the books – accepting the books as books is one thing, but if you want to take them into a world and say “Was it really moral to do this?” Of course, it’s how the book is written. Of course, these are all plot points. Of course, the books had to be written that way. They were, but was Dumbledore a moral character for that? I mean, now it’s time to, sort of, suffer, in a way, as J.K.R. has written him, was it actually a bad idea to do what Dumbledore did? You know, no one agrees – no one disagrees rather that if the books were different…

Laura: Well…

Eric: If Dumbledore was different, the books would be completely different. That’s fine, but, you know, further.

Harry: The Sacrificial Lamb

Laura: Yeah. So you’re looking at this like a real world approach, like, is it morally acceptable to raise one person as a pig for slaughter for the benefit of the overall community. That’s the question you’re asking, correct?

Eric: Yes, and, I mean, because the thing is I don’t think it’s too unrealistic to make this a real world scenario only because…

Laura: No, I understand.

Eric: …the children reading this book are going to try and take or parents are going to try and take morals. Or, you know, people always argue in essays on Harry Potter, you know, the book has so many good themes and so many good – you know? I’m just trying to pre-empt anything that people might take out of these books. And I mean, I think one of the best ways to do that is starting with Dumbledore. I mean, our hero, the wizard – the aged wizard, the genre specific old wizard, wizened old man.

Laura: Right, and I think that’s a good question to ask. But I think the difference that comes in and makes what Dumbledore is doing acceptable to a point. I’m not saying that everything he did was right, because he certainly made a lot of mistakes. But, Harry also had that moral obligation to do what he did and I think that regardless of whether or not Dumbledore chose to help him, Harry would have tried to defeat Voldemort anyway. So, it was just to Harry’s benefit that Dumbledore decided he also had an obligation to help Harry, or to train Harry to defeat Voldemort.

Eric: So, do you reckon that Dumbledore was simply, you know, kind of, making sure that Harry was in an environment where he wouldn’t get too far in danger? Do you think that Harry was, I mean, do you think that Dumbledore was – yeah.

Laura: I think Dumbledore knew Harry was going to be in extreme danger. I don’t think that he was blind to that. But I think he also wanted to foster an environment in which Harry would be able to flourish, in a way.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: You know, to be able to find out, to test his strengths.

What if Harry Relied Too Much on Dumbledore?

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, Eric, just imagine if Dumbledore was helping him through all this. Where would he have been when Dumbledore died? After Dumbledore died? He would have been lost, he would have been too reliant, he would have been looking for Dumbledore’s help and advice.

Jerry: That’s a fair point.

Eric: Are you actually going to make that argument?

Andrew: He would crash and burn.

Eric: Are you actually going to make that argument, Andrew?

Andrew: What? Which one? Which part?

Eric: Because Harry still relied on Dumbledore. After Dumbledore’s death…

Laura: Yeah, so imagine how bad it would have been.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly

Eric: After Dumbledore’s death – no, but you made the opposite point. You said that if he didn’t rely on him, then he would be in trouble, but he’s – you think, or you said, in your point, that Harry learning to cope on his own was essential, because, if he hadn’t learned to cope on his own…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, that’s what you said.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: But Dumbledore’s will and everything left all of the pieces of the clues of J.K. Rowling’s book series.

Andrew: But that’s exactly what they – but they needed those things. There was no other way they were going to get those items.

Eric: Right, but then it’s not a case of Harry learning to defend himself; it’s a case of Dumbledore fostering Harry, which is the whole point. Was it right to do that?

Andrew: That was very…

Eric: Or…

Andrew: That was a very small part of it. I mean, I’m not saying Dumbledore shouldn’t help them out a little bit. He should, especially when they absolutely need it. But when they don’t absolutely need it, which was proven through of the several books.

Eric: When was it proven that they don’t actually need it? I mean…

Andrew: Well, they went through, they successfully unlocked the Chamber of Secrets on their own.

Eric: Well…

Andrew: Dumbledore – Harry successfully fought Voldemort in Goblet of Fire.

Eric: Uh-huh.

Laura: He warded off hundreds of dementors on his own.

Eric: Well, that’s…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Actually arguable.

Andrew: He created a Patronus…

Eric: Only because of the time loop…

Andrew: …with the help of Lupin.

Eric: It’s already happened. The whole thing is somebody would have had to originally ward off the dementors, because Harry – saying Harry saw himself in a time loop means that there would have eventually had to be a first one. That’s just a paradox. I mean, I’m willing to just agree with you guys, but at the same time, some people agree that Dumbledore would have had to sort of mess with time and be the original person Harry saw, or something. And meanwhile, if J.K. Rowling ever felt the need to explain it, she could say that Dumbledore used Polyjuice Potion to turn into Harry to make him see himself. But…

Jerry: No. That’s a very weak argument. Physics doesn’t state that there has to be a first case.

Laura: Yeah.

Jerry: It’s a recurring loop because there’s two events that go around and around and around.

Eric: Yeah.

Jerry: I mean, he’s just seeing a point in the future. He isn’t seeing a first person do it and then do it again and do it again.

Eric: Well, that’s a question fair enough. Just, the whole will and testament and everything about Beedle the Bard and just the fact that Hermione could say, “Accio Horcrux books” and have them fly right to her, it just seems so flawed in a Dumbledorian sense, and I’m…

Andrew: When did she ever do Accio Horcrux?

Eric: That’s what she said. That’s how she got every single book on how to do a Horcrux.

Andrew: Oh, she did, didn’t she?

Eric: Yeah, she did. She said, “Accio Horcrux.”

Laura: But what does that have to do with Dumbledore?

Andrew: Yeah, that doesn’t really relate to Dumbledore.

Eric: I know.

Andrew: That is one of those loopholes. I think we’ve said on the show a couple of times, why can’t you just accio everything?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Why can’t you accio Voldemort?

Eric: People were accio-ing me when they want to talk to me in the chat. I feel like some kind of celebrity of something and don’t know why. But…

Andrew: Yeah, I get accio-ed all the time.

Eric: Yeah, you get accio-ed a lot too, Andrew. Accio Andrew. But, anyway. [laughs] But it has to do with Dumbledore, because I’m just trying to see – well, okay. If Dumbledore was going to do it he should do it right and if Dumbledore, I mean, sure, he has flaws, but is Dumbledore raising Harry for, I mean, that’s – I don’t know that I’ve presented the right scenarios to attack the problem correctly. Maybe a listener, maybe Muggl eMail can help. But, I mean…

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: I’m trying to just bring up this. It’s still a matter of what Dumbledore did and didn’t do.

Andrew: Well…

Eric: And, yeah.

Andrew: Let’s keep moving…

Eric: Let’s keep chugging along.

Andrew: …through the rest of the books.

Dumbledore Misleads Harry at the End of Book 5

Eric: In, we’re right here now. In, okay. At the end of Book 5, just quickly, “I’m going to tell you everything.” Now I’ve written this, I’ve written this specifically. This is the most self-conscious we’re going to get, or self-aware. Maybe that’s just the fault – It’s a book series, constantly evolving, so, maybe it’s not that much of an issue that Dumbledore said he was going to tell Harry quote quote everything, and then obviously there was more to follow that had to be spread across Books 6 and 7. So I’m saying, maybe that’s not that much of a complaint, but it’s still in my mind a complaint that…

Andrew: It is misleading.

Eric: It is misleading.

Andrew: I mean, it was misleading to us, too. Especially when Scholastic used that as a teaser for what was coming in the book.

Laura: Oh yeah, that was kind of…

Andrew: That…

Laura: Mean the way they did that.

Andrew: I don’t think I’ve ever been excited in my, been more excited in my whole life. I was like, “Everything. Everything, Dumbledore?”

Eric: Really? Huh? You know?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Wha? I’m saving my “Huh?” for something later.

Eric: Sorry, sorry. I didn’t want to pre-empt your “Huh?”

Andrew: It’s got to build up.

Laura: I really, whenever I saw that advertised, I didn’t think that we would learn everything just because we saw…

Eric: No, but a damn fair amount more than we did.

Laura: Well, I don’t know, I think we learned a lot.

Andrew: We did, but it wasn’t everything.

Laura: The prophecy is a lot of information.

Jerry: I think also, being very dedicated fans we got a completely different concept of what the word “everything” means, as well.

Eric: It’s true. I mean, I guess. I guess, it’s true.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: I think, I think…

Eric: But that’s the world J.K.R. fosters, so she should know how to deal with it and explain everything in it.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: I think that by everything he meant I’m going to tell you what your destiny is, by the way.

Eric: Well…

Laura: Like, I’m going to tell you that either you have to die or Voldemort has to die.

Andrew: So, why didn’t he say that?

Laura: What?

Jerry: I’ll tell you everything about this.

Andrew: Why didn’t he say that?

Eric: Then instead of saying I’ll tell you everything – I mean, okay, he told them that a prophecy was made. He showed him the memory of the prophecy being made by Trelawney. Okay, so that shows “oooh…”

Andrew: I guess it was everything crucial at that time.

Eric: Do you think, though? I mean…

Andrew: Yeah. The prophecy stuff is what mattered…

Eric: True, I guess.

Andrew: …in Order of the Phoenix.

Eric: But he didn’t tell him it was Snape that found out. But then again, that would have just worked for Harry to hate Snape, which was not a good idea, considering Snape was a good guy.

Laura: And he also promised Snape that he wouldn’t tell.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: See? Now Eric’s learning. Eric’s learning.

Jerry: It’s definitely a case of pertinence, isn’t it? He’s only telling him what’s relevant, really. What he needs to know.

Eric: What he needs to know. Well, it was hardly everything. And maybe that’s just a fault of Dumbledore’s – character flaw.

Andrew: Well, anyway, we said we were going to keep that point short. So, let’s go to the next one.

MuggleCast 116 Transcript (continued)

The Burnt Hand in Book 6

Eric: So, in Book 6. The mystery surrounding Dumbledore’s burned hand. I wrote this down as a bull-crap moment.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Dumbledore put it off so long, but what was the end result. Reflex issues? Beause, like, they made a point in Book 7, oh, his reflexes weren’t as fast. That’s fine, Remus Lupin, you just tell – you know, talk all night about Dumbledore’s crap reflexes. But, I’ll tell you what, if all it takes to destroy Horcruxes is some Basilisk fangs, surely Dumbledore would not have had a problem destroying the ring. Or was it the curse on the ring that was making Dumbledore’s hand burn? Because I’m not sure, because didn’t the ring also have a curse on it? The ring that was of course the heir of Slytherin’s, and also the Peverell crest, and also the Deathly Hallow.

Laura: But do you think that Dumbledore… [sighs] I don’t know.

Eric: Why was he so ambiguous about it? He wouldn’t even tell Harry about the burn. “Later, Harry!” And it seemed like this big deal and it’s just a matter of…

Andrew: No it didn’t! Only Harry made a big deal out of it.

Eric: Well, therefore, we did.

Andrew: Well, Dumbledore always brushed it off as nothing.

Jerry: Yeah.

Eric: Well, no. He said it has a very interesting answer to be dealt with later. That’s what he said.

Andrew: Did he say…

Jerry: No, he said, “the story was interesting.” He didn’t want to spoil it by revealing it too soon.”

Eric: Oh, the story was interesting.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, of course it had a good story. I mean, if I showed up to a live podcast with a burnt hand would you expect a boring story?

Eric: No, I would expect you to…

Laura: Maybe.

Jerry: “I burned it.”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I’m sure half the audience would be like, “WTF?” So…

[Jerry laughs]

Eric: [laughs] That’s just…

Andrew: What’s that mean?

Did Dumbledore’s Death Leave Harry to Die?

Eric: Oh what’s that mean? Okay, Book 6 then. Okay, this is, I think, the concluding point. Dumbledore died presumably leaving Harry with everything he’d need to continue, but in an end result that would kill Harry. Now, all in all, is it moral to raise the only one to defeat the Dark Lord? To do such, knowing the pain that he went through?

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: Harry did lose Sirius in Book 5, he lost his parents to begin with, he was with the crappy Dursleys. And Dumbledore did love Harry, and it was explained, you know, and it was shown that Dumbledore did care about Harry and did love him, but it was just a point to it where we’ve seen in Book 7 Dumbledore becoming so, at times, so egotistical. And it was his own self revelation what Grindelwald was doing was wrong that made him, you know, change his mind and fight Grindelwald to begin with, and save his family, and become the moral man, and never take the position at the Ministry because he was tempted with power, and he knew that about himself. There’s good things about Dumbledore, but even though he didn’t take the position at the Ministry, was he abusing the privilege as Headmaster or, as the person who can train Harry up, to play mind games with him? Did he play mind games with Harry?

Jerry: In sense of morals, he’s having to face a moral choice that every leader, every hero in every story ever written has had to face: Not to make that choice or to sacrifice one person’s happiness for the sake of thousands of others. He’s making Harry uncomfortable, but in turn, it’s resulting in the savior of hundreds of thousands of people, so…

Eric: You’re right. I guess if you, if you ask me…

Laura: And I mean, technically, I mean, when you consider, I mean, there are lots of studies that go into this kind of thing. Like, is it okay to make one person suffer to benefit tons of other people.

Eric: The question generally…

Laura: If it creates – yeah. If the amount of happiness outweighs the amount of hurt, is it okay? And I think what makes this scenario different is that Harry knew that he was going to have to suffer anyway.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: So, I think again, reiterating my point, Dumbledore knew he was going to do it anyway, so why not help him? Or why not give him the necessary tools?

Eric: Did he help or did he hurt him? I mean, he caused Harry, certainly, a little bit more pain…

Laura: I think – okay.

Eric: You know?

Laura: I don’t think so. Think about how much more pain he would’ve gone through if he hadn’t had any guidance at all.

Jerry: Mhm.

Laura: Like, I mean, if he didn’t…

Eric: Well, no, no. I’m not saying about no guidance at all. I’m saying if Dumbledore would’ve guided and told him everything, at least at the age of 15 or 16, everything before he died or everything – I mean, there stands that there is something to be gained by Harry learning it all on his own, but the way Book 7 progressed, I really don’t think Harry learned much on his own. I really don’t think so. That long time in the woods didn’t really make Harry learn anything. There was some weird thing about a snake inside a lady, but that was about it.

Laura: And about those little things called Deathly Hallows, too.

Jerry: It’s just a small point.

Andrew: Oooo…

Eric: Which happened to be what? The opposite of a human being? Thank, Hermione Granger, who happened to Accio a book out of Dumbledore’s office. You know? I mean, I’m sorry.

Final Thoughts

Andrew: I guess we should go around the table now and just final thoughts on…

Eric: Do you think it’s right?

Andrew: Do you think it’s right? Yeah.

Eric: Okay. Well, two questions. Do you think it’s right to sacrifice one person’s happiness or one person’s life for the lives of many, first of all, and then do you agree or do you think there’s something to this argument about Dumbledore being more than a flawed character and actually committing some serious crimes on Harry?

Andrew: Okay, I’ll start. First point. Should – was it wrong for Dumbledore to…

Eric: All right, well, first of all, is it okay to sacrifice one person’s life…

Andrew: Oh, right.

Eric: …or happiness for the life of others.

Andrew: No, it’s not. But I think Dumbledore…

Eric: Really?

Andrew: Yeah, it’s not. But I think Dumbledore was – well, first of all, it depends on the person. I mean, I don’t want to make, like, a Hitler reference, but if you’re going to kill off Hitler, you know.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: You’ll kind of save some other people, you know? That would be good.

Eric: [laughs] Well, okay, let’s rephrase. A good person. A good person then, an innocent person, in fact. Is it right to corrupt the innocence of youth to sort of bring into reality…

Andrew: Okay. No.

Eric: …the burdens of the world?

Andrew: It’s not all right, but I think Dumbledore was confident enough that Harry would not be sacrificed and Harry would make it through. Maybe Dumbledore had some inkling – had some shred of evidence that would prove that Harry would definitely make it through. And so, no, I don’t think that you should sacrifice a good person in order to benefit a larger group of people, and I don’t think it relates to this discussion because I think Dumbledore was sure Harry would make it.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: Would be successful in his battle.

Eric: So the odds were in Harry’s favor? Could that be successfully argued?

Andrew: Yeah, of course. Well, yeah. I don’t even want to call them odds. I would think that Dumbledore saw more than just odds.

Eric: Well, a lot of it came down to chance, didn’t it?

Andrew: Yeah. Yes, but…

Eric: I mean, about Peter Pettigrew redeeming himself or not and…

Andrew: Yes, but I’m hoping… Yeah, I know, but I’m hoping that Harry or that Dumbledore – something just made him confident in believing that Harry
would make it through. I cannot see Harry – I cannot see Dumbledore being okay with losing Harry and Harry being sacrificed in order for a larger group of people to be happy and survive and get past Voldemort and move on, you know?

Eric: Okay, Jerry, what do you think?

Jerry: Well, I’m of the opinion provided that if it’s a single person’s life and also that through Dumbledore’s actions, Harry was conditioned to, when it came to it, be ready to die. I mean at the end he wasn’t suffering.

Andrew: Mhm.

Jerry: He had an amazing sense of calm that he knew this was going to happen and he was okay with that. I mean, in the end, is he suffering? Is his death something that’s causing him anguish? No, he was ready for it and he took the responsibility. He knew his actions were going to benefit these people and he was happy with that, and I think that’s what it comes down to, really. I mean, the fact that he didn’t die is of course a good thing, and perhaps Dumbledore did have the foresight to see that killing a single piece of soul would release Harry.

Andrew: Yeah. Laura?

Laura: No, it is not morally permissible to sacrifice one person’s happiness for the happiness of other people, but that question implies that you are taking that from them without giving them a choice, and Harry was given a choice up until the absolute last minute. Like, he was in a limbo between the world of the living and the dead, and Dumbledore said, “You can die if you want to. You can end this right now. You don’t have to go back and fight him. You can just end it and you can be done.” And…

Eric: No, was that a choice? Because Voldemort would’ve still been alive and then all the people Harry feels responsible to would’ve been let down by Harry.

Laura: Well, it doesn’t matter.

Eric: Is that a real choice?

Laura: Sure, it’s a choice. Harry could’ve decided that, “Hey…”

Eric: “Screw ’em all”? [laughs]

Laura: “…you know, I’ve had enough of this.”

Eric: “Screw ’em all, the afterlife is the place to be.”

Laura: Yeah, he could’ve said it, but he didn’t, and I think that’s the point. Dumbledore always knew that Harry was a good person and he would make the right choice, so I don’t think that Dumbledore forced him into anything.

Eric: It’s so interesting. The question, you know, “is it right to sacrifice the life of one to save many?” is, I think, in my mind, followed by the question “can you guarantee that this person’s life or death will affect those people in that said positive way?” You know, what power do you have to actually guarantee that that sort of thing will happen? I mean, obviously if it’s Hitler, that’ll happen, but I think, in the end, I’m kind of borderline on “yes, it is,” but at the same time, I don’t think
that kind of thing can be known, so it’s not morally permissible. I think there should be ways around it. But, again, because this is a book series, too, I’m trying to, you know, pull myself from the reality and say, “Okay, so it’s not really permissible.” It’s a novel idea, a novel concept, that if you could control every situation, one, you know, could die to save others, and that’s the whole point of martyrs, et cetera, and that’s all good and fine. Now, I do think that Dumbledore was, in a way, leading Harry. I do think there could’ve been a sort of better, or different, character in Dumbledore, but then, perhaps, it wouldn’t be Dumbledore and
we wouldn’t be talking about it with such uniqueness. We’d be making references to other books. Well, maybe we haven’t read any other book series, but I just think it is Dumbledore, and maybe that’s – that’s the whole thing about Harry Potter; it exists as something that we can discuss literally for – how many episodes now? 116? I mean, we’ve been doing this, and shows like this, where we can pick a point, this thing, and talk about it. And maybe it’s just me begging the question, maybe I’m annoying everybody, maybe…

[Jerry laughs]

Eric: …everybody turned off the show thirty minutes ago, but…

Andrew: Everyone’s nodding their heads. Yeah.

Eric: Everyone’s nodding their heads.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Just kidding.

Eric: But… [laughs]. But this, just the fact that this can be discussed is actually, I think, something in itself, and I think…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …your guys’ conclusions was really good.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: I think I liked your guys’ conclusions very much so, and I’m personally a little happy, so – yeah.

Andrew: Well, I think the discussion went well.

Laura: Yeah, very nice.

Andrew: And I’m sure there’s going to be plenty of feedback about this next
week, and so, we didn’t really talk about the second point that you wanted to address, but, I mean, we could save it for next week because this is quite a long show now. Okay, so next week, Eric, you want to talk more about Dumbledore’s family and we’ll also extend on our discussion this week with rebuttals…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …and…

Eric: And we’ll have extra people working on the main discussion, so it won’t be kind of circular and trying to ask a big question about literary discussion.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I mean…

Andrew: Well, I think it was still good.

Eric: …we will be talking about Dumbledore.

Andrew: It was interesting.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was good.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: So, I mean, next week will just be about the family and the cool parts about what we learned.

Andrew: Okay.

Andrew’s “HUH?!” E-mail of the Week

Andrew: Yeah. It’s time for my, “Huh?!” E-mail of the Week. It
comes from Nicki, 13, of Rochester, New York. Subject: Andrew Andrew Andrew! How they heard of us: MuggleNet main page. IP address:

[Jerry, Laura, and Eric laugh]

Andrew: .Her message:

“So I hear you’re on the market now. I, too, am single at the moment. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. So, want to get together? Anyways, keep up the good work on the show!”

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: “Love it. Best wishes, Nicki J.”

May I read again, her age is 13.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: And she’s from Rochester, New York. Well, age is no definition of maturity, Andrew. You should know that. You were young when you started this show…

Andrew: Not when I was…

Eric: …and look at where it’s come.

Andrew: Well, fair point, but…

Laura: Okay…

Andrew: I’m 18 now. I want more out of a relationship.

Jerry: His age is a legal age.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I don’t think I’m going to be with a little 13-year old. Yeah.

Eric: Oh, right, you have to be legal.

Laura: Not to mention that – yeah…

Andrew: I mean, that’s not – well, I mean, no. That’s not what I was implying.

Eric: Well, begs the question, Andrew. Are you on the market?

Andrew: It’s time for a Chicken Soup For The MuggleCast Soul.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: This comes from Sidney…

Eric: But you can’t do a Huh?! moment!

Andrew: …11, of Burke, Virginia.

Eric: No, that was not a Huh?! segment!

Andrew: Yes, it was!

Eric: I’m rejecting that.

Andrew: It was just a weird e-mail.

Eric: No.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Oh, fine.

Andrew: I have one about a hermit crab, too. You want that one?

Jerry: Yeah, sounds good.

Andrew: “Dear Andrew, I got a hermit crab last night and I almost named it Andrew…”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: “…but then I realized hermit Crabbe, C-R-A-B-B-E, so I named him Vincent. Love, Shannon, 14, of New Jersey.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Laura: Nice. [laughs]

Andrew: “In case it entered your mind…

Eric: [laughs] Vincent.

Andrew: …yes, I am the same Shannon from New Jersey who said your voice is sooo dreamy during the live event.”

Okay, so, that’s that.

[Eric laughs]

Chicken Soup For The MuggleCast Soul

Andrew: Chicken Soup. Sidney L., from Burbank, Virginia, 11-years old.

Eric: Burke. Burke, Virginia.

Andrew: Burke. What’d I say?

Laura; Burbank. [laughs]

Andrew: Burbank. Burbank, California! Burke.

Laura: “About two years ago, my sister, Rachel, was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia. She had to have much treatment, even a bone
marrow transplant about five hours away. We had to visit her every weekend, so if you add that up, that’s ten hours of boredom per week. Then my dad got me a video iPod. When I got my iTunes account, my dad first searched for
Harry Potter and subscribed for the first free thing there.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

“I’ve been an avid listener ever since. The first episode I ever listened to was Episode 50. Yes, I have 67 MuggleCast episodes on my iPod. Also, this summer, I was stuck in either Durham, North Carolina, or summer sleep-away camp, where I couldn’t bring my iPod. You were the only thing that saved me from my boredom. I even made a poem for you. I got an A plus.”

Andrew: Oooh.

Laura: And here’s her poem:

“At the end of the week
When I’m feeling meek
And I go
on MuggleNet
And start to fret
And then go on iTunes
It’s no time for balloons

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

I double-click on MuggleCast
I really want it to last

Jerry: Awww.


And then my
frown turns upside-down.

Pickley love, from Sidney.

Andrew: Oh, I – first of all, I like the sign off.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Pickley love.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs] That’s really cool.

Eric: Oh, and there’s a postscript, there’s a postscript.


Laura: What’d she say? Oh, oh.

My dog can…”


“…probably eat more pickles than all of you.”

Andrew: Weird. I wonder what the grade was based on. Like, was it rhyming, like rhyming schemes, or – because…

Eric: I think it’s about overall content. It’s the whole thing.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Or was it a – what are those poems called? It’s like, 4-6-4. Or like…

Eric: Haiku?

Andrew: Haiku.

Eric: 3-5-6.

Andrew: Obviously not a haiku, but…

Laura: This isn’t a haiku.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well, that would be weird, though. MuggleCast haikus, you can do a listener challenge.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Show Close

Andrew: Well, I think that does do it for this episode of MuggleCast. We do thank everyone for listening. If you have any parcel mail you would like to send – Eric, you’re sighing, what’s going on?

Eric: Oh, no, I was trying to come up with a haiku.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Eric: Because I Googled haiku and it’s 5-7-5 syllables.

Andrew: Oh, right.

Eric: And I’m trying to think of a MuggleCast haiku…

Andrew: Okay, well…

Eric: …based on that lovely poem.

Andrew: …while you think of that, we’ll go through the contact information. Laura, if someone has parcel mail, how could they get it to us?

Laura: You can send that to:

P.O. Box 3151
Cumming, Georgia

Andrew: You can also call in a voice mail question or comment, a listener rebuttal, Muggle Mail, whatever you want to call it. Just keep your message under sixty seconds and eliminate as much background noise as possible. To dial, if you’re in the United States, you dial 1-218-20-MAGIC. That’s 1-218-206-2442. If you’re in the United Kingdom, you can dial 020-8144-0677. And if you’re in Australia, Down Under, you can dial 02-8003-5668. We just renewed that number. It cost us $60 for a year, so if you’re wondering where…

Laura: So use it.

Andrew: Huh?

Laura: So use it, please

Andrew: Yes, so use it. Yeah.

[Andrew, Eric, and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I guess their prices went up. I don’t remember paying that much last time, but – so if anyone’s wondering, “Well, where does this money go? Like, your ring tones and stuff.” That’s where it goes to. Phones numbers, hosting costs, our food, stuff like that.

Laura: Yep.

Andrew: And you can also Skype the username MuggleCast. Just visit to download the free software, then you can add MuggleCast as a username. Then you can make a free call to us. Skype is completely free as long as you’re calling another Skype name, such as MuggleCast.

You can also e-mail us using the handy feedback form on or use any one of our first names at staff dot mugglenet dot com.

There are also many community outlets to reach us. We have the MySpace, Facebook, YouTube, Frappr, Last.FM, there is the Fanlisting, and I do want to point out that the forums, unfortunately, no longer exist.

Eric: Well, they will be back.

Andrew: Will they?

Eric: They will be back. Yes, apparently there’s something on the site right now that says the official MuggleCasting forums will be coming back up and revamped and I don’t know much about it.

Andrew: Let me read this. Oh yeah, what do you know? What do you know? “An all new, completely revamped site is coming soon. If you are interested in being involved with the new site as a moderator, please send Alice an e-mail with your name, age, forum experience, ideas you have for the site (which could make it better and more active) and, in 25 words or less, why you want to help out.”

[Laura laughs]

Eric: So, anybody interested in working on the new MuggleCast forums…

Andrew: Well, that’s why I’m reading it, so…

Laura: Oh, okay. I thought you were actually – I thought you were… Yeah, nevermind.

Andrew: No, no, no, if anyone’s interested, because we always get e-mails saying, “How can I help the show?” On the forums, the fan forums are a great way. And maybe we’ll start promoting that more to get more people involved on it and discussing the show, and also Harry Potter.

Eric: Yeah, because there’s not much of a venue sort of thing for all the new fans, even, to discuss.

Andrew: Exactly, yeah.

Eric: I mean, the forums where what they had and then they got taken down and now they’re coming back up so we should do that.

Andrew: Yeah., and then Alice had her e-mail address there where you can contact her to apply for a position. I’m sure they’re going to do a great job no matter what they do.

Eric: Guys, I have my Haiku ready.

Andrew: Okay, hold on, just continuing with the community outlets, you can also visit and digg the show for us. That’s like a vote. And you can also vote for us once a month at Podcast Alley and rate and review us on Yahoo! Podcasts. So visit for all that and much, much, much, much more. Eric, please. Shower us with your Haiku.

Eric: Okay, 5-7-5, guys.

Each week, I always listen
Those kids know what they’re talking about
MuggleCast is lots of fun.

Andrew: What was the first line? “Each week I always?”

Eric: “Each week I always listen.”

Andrew: No, that’s more than five.

Eric: Five words. Oh, crap that’s right. No, I did it in words. I did five words, seven words…

[Everyone laughs]

Jerry: You did words, not syllables.

Andrew: Oh, no it’s syllables. It’s syllables.

Eric: Oh, crap. I’m going to re-write this real quick. Do the show – do the closing again.

[Show Music begins]

Andrew: That’s embarrassing. I can’t believe you thought it was words.

Eric: Okay, no. “Each week I listen. Those kids know what they’re…” One, two, three, four, five, six…

Andrew: Doing.

Eric: “…saying.” Saying.

Andrew: Saying.

Eric: “Those kids know what they’re saying. MuggleCast is fun.” There we go! Okay, so. Revamped.

Each week I listen
Those kids know what they’re saying
MuggleCast is fun.

Andrew: Excellent.

Laura: Yay.

Eric: Yes! That’s awesome.

Transcribers to be Hired

Andrew: All right, thank you, everyone, for listening. Another quick shout out – we do this every once in a while – I just want to say thanks again to all the transcribers and everyone working on the show. Because it really is a big team behind this whole podcast, especially the transcript area. Micah’s working on hiring some new staff there, so if anyone is interested in becoming a transcriber, e-mail micah at staff dot mugglenet dot com. I know he wanted me to announce that this week: micah at staff dot mugglenet dot com saying you want to help out. He’s looking for dedicated people. All you have to do is transcribe a few minutes of the show every week. That’s it.

Eric: Accurately.

Andrew: Accurately, that’s important too.

Eric: And if it’s not accurate, then we’ll drag your name through the mud.

Laura: Yes, and if you e-mail him and say, “I can tell the difference between Laura and Jamie’s voices, especially,” he will not hire you.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, you should know the difference between everyone’s voice and be good at spelling and all that. So, thank you, everyone for listening. I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I am Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Jerry: And I’m Jerry Cooke.

Andrew: Jerry, thanks for joining us, by the way. Over at, right?

Jerry: Yup.

Andrew: This is the most unorganized out-tro I’ve ever done.

Eric: Now, you guys had the Black Sisters on this week, haven’t you? From YouTube?

Jerry: Yeah, we have. We meant to have you on as well but…timezones…Internet.

Eric: Yeah. Hey, next time. Next time.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: All right, everyone, thank you for joining us this week.

Eric: Woot!

Andrew: We will see you next week for Episode 1-1-7. Bye.

Laura: Bye!

Jerry: Bye!

Andrew: Bye!


Eric: Well, wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of getting a mixer? If you can’t mix our individual audio tracks?

Andrew: I don’t – what are you saying?

Eric: Well, I’m saying if we are all in the same room or any proximity in which we could hug or dance or something, wouldn’t our audio streams kind of cross over and make us quite difficult to edit?

Andrew: Well, we would be…

Eric: Oh, that quality would be so good that it would far surpass…

Andrew: Well, yeah, and we won’t be talking over each other once we’re actually here.

Eric: [laughs] And if we would, we’d be…

Andrew: You’d just be stupid.

Eric: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Absolutely, yeah, that was what I was… [imitating an echo] “Yeah, um, we just need to – we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, need, need, need, to, to, to, to work out the kinks, kinks, kinks, kinks, kinks, kinks, kinks, in the audio, audio, audio, audio, problem, problem, problem.”

Laura: What are you doing, Eric?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Well, you wouldn’t hear feedback! You wouldn’t hear echoing here. It would be very easy to set up. There would not be any problems if everyone was just here.

Eric: No, no, it sounds good. Let me just get back to you when I get home to the states in December. So…

Andrew: Yeah. Well, I know you’re crazy to drive out here at least once a month.

Eric: No, it’s true, it’s true.

Andrew: You’ll do it, right?

Eric: Yeah, I will.

Andrew: And Laura would come, and maybe Micah, and we’ll go out to eat afterwards, and watch movies, and cuddle and stuff.

Laura: Aww, that’d be so fun.

Eric: We’ll go to Chick-fil-A.

Andrew: Oh god, Chick-fil-A. Oh, so good.

Eric: I love that stuff.

Laura: I just had that yesterday.

Andrew: Ohhh.

Andrew: I have a good lesson for all the kids out there who are in middle school, high school, even. I had to do a poetry project in eighth grade for my English class. So, I did this whole… We had to write up all these different poems and stuff, and then I lucked out because two years later, we had to do another poetry packet which included basically the same types of poems. So, what did I do? I just used my one from eighth grade.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Okay, that’s not much of a lesson.

Eric: I did that once too.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, what I’m trying to say is that it’s okay to reuse some of your old schoolwork.

Eric: It actually is. Sometimes. I mean, you’re plagiarizing yourself.

Andrew: Yeah!

Eric: But, but…

Andrew: And is it plagiarism if you’re plagiarizing yourself?

Eric: And the whole thing is, I mean, when you’re older…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: ….you’re expected to have a better writing style so you should probably just improve on what you said, but that’s fine.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s what I did basically.

Eric: It’s like saying you could never write about a movie you’ve written about before.

Laura: I did that all through high school. I recycled essays and all sorts of stuff.

Eric: That’s how you got through. By eighth grade, you were set. You had written everything you ever needed to.

Micah: Because pigs are sometimes made for slaughter, this is MuggleCast, Episode 117 for October 16th – I don’t even know what the [word bleeped out] is going on. What episode are we on?