Transcript #117

MuggleCast 117 Transcript

Show Intro

[Show music stars]

Mason: Hey there MuggleCast listeners! I am back to inform you of some excellent news. is having better deals than ever for only $3.59 a month for 12 months you can get’s economy package with 250 Gigs of bandwidth, 5 gigs of storage, and up to 500 e-mail accounts. You can get your own website up and running with success, and as usual, enter code MUGGLE, That’s M-U-G-G-L-E- when you check out save an additional 10% on any order. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the internet at

Andrew: Today’s MuggleNet podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for the Phoenix Rising Conference. Borders was there to take in the sites and share a lively discussion of the series that has bewitched the world with some of Harry’s most dedicated fans. Listen in and watch the action yourself. Check our The Phoenix Rising, Borders Book Club discussion at, or click on the Borders banner at the top of the MuggleNet page.

Ben: This weeks show is brought to you by The internets leading provider in spoken word entertainment. Get a free audio book download of your choice when you sign up today. Log on to today for details.

Micah: Because… [Ben impersonating Dumbledore] “it is our choices Harry” …this is MuggleCast Episode 117 for October 2th8, 2007.

[Show music continues to play]

Ben: [imitating Dumbledore] It is our choices Harry, far more than our sexuality that determines who we truly are.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh boy, oh boy. Dumbledore is gggggg-great.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Laura: Well, that too.

Andrew: [whispers] Should we say it? Should we say it?

Laura: I don’t know. First the ‘B’ word, and now…

Andrew: Well, JKR said it, Andrew. JKR said it.

Ben: So, if Jo says it, it’s all right.

Laura: Yes.

Ben: Dumbledore’s gay. And I’m back, by the way.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: In other news, Ben Schoen’s back on the show.

Laura: Dumbledore being gay pails in comparison to Ben coming back. Just so you all know.

Eric: There’s only one thing that presieve Ben coming back and thats Dumbledore being gay. So, we got that out of the way. Now Ben’s back.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: That’s what I was waiting on, actually. I was just waiting for some major thing, random shaking news. You know?

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Then I decided…

Andrew: That’s what you’re all about.

Ben: Yep, shaking up the fandom. It’s what I do.

Andrew: Anyway, we’re going to be talking a lot about Dumbledore being gay. It’s a big revalation and we’ll all explain our reactions and a lot of people are excited to hear what we have to say
about it. We will be talking about that today. We’re going to be talking about…

Ben: Well, one quick thing, though. I think the funniest thing that’s come out of this Dumbledore gay thing, though, is on facebook today I saw a group called ‘Dumbledore’s Army: The New Gay/Straight Alliance’. I thought that was awesome.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Honestly, Ben.

Andrew: That’s great.

Ben: What?

Eric: No, nevermind. Nevermind.

Andrew: That is very good and so I’ve created a new website where I am taking a stand against this issue…

Ben: [laughs]

Andrew: No, you ruined it! You ruined it! Also, my voice is slowly recovering . I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Show music continues to play]


Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum is in the MuggleCast news center with this past weeks top Harry Potter-Dumbledore-Is-Gay news stories.

Micah: All right, thanks Andrew. At her final tour stop in Ontario, Canada on Tuesday, JK Rowling received questions from the press concerning her revelation that Dumbledore was gay:

“The plot is what it is,” said Rowling. “(Dumbledore) did have, as I say, this rather tragic infatuation, but that was a key part of the ending of the story so there it is. Why would I put the key part of my ending of my story in Book 1?”

David Thewlis, the actor who plays Professor Lupin in the Harry Potter series recently did an interview while promoting his new book, The Late Hector Kipling in Toronto for the International Festival of Authors. One of the questions he answered was in response to the recent news concerning Dumbledore’s character, saying he initially believed Lupin to be gay due to initial conversations with Prisoner of Azkaban director Alfonso Cuaron.

The Harry Potter series picked up two prizes at the 2007 Scream Awards hosted by Spike TV. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix won in the catergory of “Best Sequel” while actor Ralph Fiennes was named “Most Vile Villian” for his role as Lord Voldemort.

The awards were handed out on October 19th at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles, California.

The Wiltshire Times had a report earlier this week from the first day of on-location filming for Half-Blood Prince, which is set to be released on November 21st, 2008. The scene involving Harry and Dumbledore going to visit Slughorn is the scene the crews are working on, and Dan Radcliffe is scheduled to be on set. Filming has continued throughout the week with various photos and reports emerging online. For the latest information be sure to check out

Director Guillermo Del Toro recently had a chat with MTV about the Potter movies. In this new interview, he mentions that he had previously turned down Prisoner of Azkaban because the films were too “bright and happy and full of light.” But, after seeing the previous two adaptations, he has begun to reconsider the offer. “They seem to be getting eerie and darker… If they come back to me, I’ll think about it.” Del Toro is known for his work on Pan’s Labyrinth and the Hellboy series.

The French and German translations of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows were both released on Saturday. Hundreds of fans queued for hours to get their hands on the book, with large release parties being organized in several towns and cities.

Finally, according to, the DVD for Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix has been released in various Latin American countries including Chile. You can see video of the opening menu as well as individual screenshots by logging on to

Remember the DVD of the fifth film will be released in the UK on November 12 and in the US on December 11.

That’s all the news on this October 28th, 2007 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah.

Micah: You are welcome.

Initial Dumbledore Reaction

Andrew: You know, Micah, as our news anchor – as the man sitting in the MuggleCast News Studio. [strange noise] My mic just shook. Is that all of the news coming into the studio right now? I mean, that’s all everyone wants to know about. That’s all the media’s been covering, Dumbledore is gay.

Micah: Yeah. That’s what it’s all about. I mean, even from all the actors. David Thewlis and Tom Felton. That’s all anybody is talking about. Forget about Half-Blood Prince filming. Forget about awards and all that other crap. It’s all about Dumbledore.

Andrew: It’s hot gossip, I have to say.

Micah: I know, and it…

Ben: Well see, here’s what happened. The night that – Andrew was there. Andrew, you and Laura both were there when she said it.

Andrew: And Micah.

Laura: And Micah.

Ben: And Micah. Yeah, you three were there. And I’m sitting at home – Or actually, I’m in the car and I look down at my phone and I have a new text message and it’s from Andrew. And it says, “Dumbledore is gay. Jo said so.” [laughs] And I was just like, “What?”

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: I was like, “Are you serious?” And then a little bit later I was with Emerson. And he got a phone call from one of his friends at school. They’re like, “Is it true? Is it true?” And it was just like the night was crazy.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah [laughs] It’s amazing. Laura, Micah, and I – when we were sitting there and she said it. Well, let’s – I mean, we weren’t going to talk about this until later on, but I guess we have to now.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: We’re just all a little excited. When we first heard it, [laughs] my mouth actually just dropped. And I just started applauding. I thought it was the funniest thing she could have said.

Laura: Yeah. It was fabulous.

Andrew: Ever. [laughs] Micah and Laura, what were your reactions?

Laura: I cheered. I thought it was great. Like, I remember everybody around me kind of gasped a little bit.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: And then it seemed like there was this simultaneous just roar of applause and cheering. It was really, really fantastic.

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: Everyone received it very well.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: I was shocked. I really didn’t know how to react to that. Then, like both of you said, there was just this simultaneous applause after…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …a huge pause in the audience. But, I was shocked.

Laura: And there were a couple of guys who stood up in the audience, who were clearly very supportive of this. So…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I guess it’s quite liberating, too. Such as…

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: There’s this sort of, you know, iconic figure and character being homosexual. And it’s really good like that. That was really – I mean a lot of people are quite happy with it. As well. And I am, too. Just the openness that she approached it with. She wasn’t afraid to say it. She said it, she outted him.

Andrew: Jo actually said in an interview later on – actually at a press release in, press thing in Canada. Excuse me. That it actually inspired someone to come out right there at Carnegie Hall. So that was nice. Micah, was that you?

Micah: Yeah, yeah.

[Ben and Laura laugh]

Micah: I just stood up and went crazy. No.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: No, no. That wasn’t me.

Ben: We’ll talk more about this later.

MuggleCast Down Under

Andrew: Yeah. We’ll spend another hour on it, I’m sure. But Eric, there were two big MuggleCast events going on in – somewhere that none of have been to before.

Eric: Right.

Andrew: Except you.

Eric: Yeah. And you guys should definitely come down. I was in both Sydney and…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Melbourne, Australia. Come down under, you guys. I’m serious. It was actually two great shows…

Ben: It’s only like a 60-year flight to get there.

Eric: Yeah, it is a 60-year flight. Now it’s just about, I reckon, about 19 hours or so. So it’s not that bad. And you guys have been to London. Well, actually to London from the east coast is six hours. Anyway, look guys, the MuggleCast Down Under was a success. Both the events were freaking amazing. It was really great to see our Australian fans. And guys, I know you don’t realize this, but our Australian fans were quite competent. They were quite keen to talk about Harry Potter. They all had really interesting theories. It was all just really good stuff. So that’s my status report. The shows were quite successful. Thank you guys for contributing, especially Micah. Everbody on this show, right now, did contribute. But half of them were a little bit late on that front. So, we didn’t actually get to show you guys, Laura and Andrew. And actually, Micah, we showed your – because Micah did a segment, he did a news segment which was fantastic. We showed that at both events. But, then you three guys did a “Dumbledore is gay. Oh my god!” video afterwards, which didn’t make it into the show. But that’s okay, because that’s what we’re talking about now. Anyway, thank you guys for contributing footage. I really appreciated that. And also, right now the status is there will be video of both events. Especially the Sydney one. I wanted to talk to you, Andrew, about this. Because the Sydney video, there’s actually Journalism and Media students who are working on editing it. And they had this whole camera crew there, doing the thing. And they’re going to be editing. So I expect the video to be quite exciting. And I said this at Sydney, I think maybe we should do this as a video podcast, do you reckon? That could be possibly released on the feed?

Andrew: What non-linear video application are they using to edit this video?

Eric: Oh, I don’t know. What non-linear video application should they be using, Andrew?

Andrew: Final Cut Pro.

Eric: Really? Okay. I’ll put in a request for Final Cut Pro.

Andrew: But, anyway.

Eric: Anyway, so the only other thing is that the overall turnout of the people is actually – it was quite shocking. We had great shows. About 80 people showed up at either show. But, it was only half the people who we received RSVPs from.

Andrew: Tsk, tsk, Aussies.

Eric: Tsk, tsk, Aussies. Now everyone who did come out – and it’s possible, I mean, in Sydney there was – It was during exams and stuff. So, we don’t know exactly why, but people RSVPed and then didn’t show up. And it’s just created a teensy problem because we booked these big, big venues expecting more people than RSVP’d and we got half. So what happened, is just as a general rule of thumb, we didn’t sell enough t-shirts to cover the costs of the show. Basically. So, what we’re doing is, actually guys, the Sydney and the MuggleCast Down Under t-shirts are officially memorabilia. What we’re doing is we’re shipping them, we’re posting them. We have them on sale, all our remaining stock of MuggleCast t-shirts. If you didn’t get to make it to MuggleCast Down Under, but really wanted to and you’re still in Australia. And for whatever reason you RSVPed and couldn’t make it, we would really appreciate it if you still support the show and you can still get a cool MuggleCast Down Under t-shirt. And we post that to you. So, details will be on about that. It’s just a little, teensy problem. But if you still want to support the show, lots of people – I mean, now you’ll see pictures on the Facebooks and everything. There’s all sorts of albums. It was a really good event. And the fan response just shows, guys, that you guys should come down to Aussieville because that’s where it’s all going on. There were a lot of good stuff.

Andrew: Well, I guess we have to roll a few more GoDaddy ads before we do that. That’s pretty expensive.

Eric: Hmmm. Well, and understandable, but it was great fun, and I want to just thank everybody at HP Events Australia for that. That was really good. That was good fun.

Andrew: All right, we’re going to jump straight into news discussion now. That’s basically all this show is going to be about because JK Rowling revealed quite the good amount of information at her final US reading in New York City at Carnegie Hall on—oh, what was the date?

Laura: October 19th.

Andrew: It was October 20th? 19th? Was it Friday night?

Laura: Yup.

Order of the Phoenix DVD

Andrew: Oh. Okay. But first I want to get to two news items I thought were worth discussing. The first one, and this happened a couple weeks ago, Order of the Phoenix to offer digital download right on the DVD. So basically, you’ll be able to take the movie file on the DVD – I assume it will be separate from the actual file that you’re watching in your DVD player. You’re going to be able to take that and specifically format it for your Zune – like anyone has one of those – and iPod. And iPhone and iPod Touch. So you’ll be able to watch these on your portable media player for no extra cost, which is really cool, all you have to do is buy the DVD and then you can watch it on the go. Anyone else think that’s cool, or am I just really nerdy?

Ben: That is awesome.

Laura: That’s pretty sweet. No, no, that’s really cool, if you actually can afford an iPhone or an iPod Touch.

Andrew: Santa’s coming, Laura. Santa’s coming.

[Ben laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: I don’t know, guys, what do you think? Because this is – portable DVD – they’re experimenting, which is good. I like the idea that they’re experimenting with portable media and video and format and stuff, so I really don’t know, I don’t know what to think.

Andrew: Well, I think it’s good. There’s the piracy thing, of course, there’s a question of piracy, but I don’t know how digitally protected it could be. But we’ll see when it comes out. It was just an interesting story.

Eric: Well, didn’t they hack the iPhone like three hours after its arrival?

Andrew: Yeah, but that has nothing to do with movie files.

Eric: Well, it can’t be much more…

Andrew: That was just so you could put applications and stuff on it, like my iPhone.

Eric: Ahhh. [laughs]

Half-Blood Prince Filming

Andrew: And then another story, on location Half-Blood Prince filming has commenced, so basically filming is now underway. Filming occurred in Lacock, somewhere in England.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh, grow up. Grow up.

Micah: Oh you knew that was coming.

Andrew: No, Lacock.

Ben: Was Dumbledore present in Lacock?

Andrew: Dumbledore was present, and Michael Gambon was actually present in Lacock. He was there to film the scene where he is arriving with Harry to go meet with Slughorn.

Ben: [condescending tone] Oh, no, I can’t even stand his relationship – I can’t even look at his relationship with Harry in the same way anymore.

Andrew: I know. We’ll get to that too. Moving on.

Eric: Yeah, we will, actually.

Andrew: They’ve been filming there for a couple days. They plan on filming from – it’s a heavy, heavy filming schedule. It’s like from 5 PM to 5 AM every day until Saturday night. So they’re going to be busy there. Of course all the neighbors there are very excited because they’re filming Harry Potter in their area, so that’s all very exciting, and more filming reports will be coming out frequently now that filming is seriously underway. At least on location filming. We usually don’t get many set reports. Hopefully, we’re going to be invited to the set again. I can’t wait to go. [pause] Nobody was listening. The joke was that I can’t wait to go again. Forget you guys.

Laura: Oh, well, no, no, I figured that’s what would happen, so it just…

Micah: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I didn’t even think about it.

Carnegie Hall Reading

Andrew: Oh, well if I have your blessing now, then I’m there. Thank you. Makes things a lot easier. Okay, now let’s move on to the events that occurred at Carnegie Hall. We’re going to get to the “Dumbledore is gay” later. We’ll save that for last because there’s so much to talk about. But Laura and Micah, while we were there, I have to say Jo was in a very peppy mood. She was in a very good mood, it seems.

Laura: Yeah, she really was. She’s very enthusiastic.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Like, when you compare this reading to the reading at Radio City Music Hall, this just easily trumped it, I thought.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Laura: She was just very enthusiastic and very into the reading. For those of you who don’t know, she read from the part right after Ron came back and where Hermione essentially flipped out on him, and it was great. Her imitation of Hermione ticked off was just spot on. It was really, really good.

Andrew: Right, yeah. And I think the thing with Radio City was that she was still writing the book. With this reading there was a lot less pressure.

Laura: Yeah, I think so too.

Andrew: Although I don’t understand how you can be so happy at your reading when you know you have 2,000 books to sign in a matter of minutes.

Micah: I don’t know, I thought she felt a lot more comfortable with the adult audience. She seemed really happy to be talking to an audience that was comprised more of adults than children. I could really – that kind of sense that she gave off early on when you said that she was feeling just into the whole thing a little bit more than we had seen her in any other place.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: Yeah, well…

Eric: Do you reckon that’s from talking to so many schools before hand, she was ready to talk to adults?

Micah: She was sick of all the kids?

Andrew: [laughs] No.

Eric: No, no, I’m asking.

Andrew: There were quite a few kids there, I mean don’t get us wrong. The majority was kids.

Laura: But didn’t – yeah.

Ben: But I think there’s so many factors that would play into her mood during the reading. I mean, what if for example when she was going to Radio City she stubbed her toe before she went on stage. You know what I mean?

Laura: Oh, and I’m not saying that that was bad.

Ben: You really can’t say that Radio City – I mean, sure, she may have been happier and the one at Carnegie Hall may have been more pepped up, but it could have a lot to do with, you know, she’s finished the books now, a lot of the pressure’s off her like Andrew said.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Ben: But I don’t think it necessarily – I mean, there’s so many factors that anything we say is just speculation, but that’s what we do. [laughs]

Andrew: Well, yeah. Don’t get us wrong. We’re not trying to analyze it, we’re just saying she was in a good mood.

Laura: Yeah, definitely.

Eric: Which is good, which is good.

Laura: I think a lot of it had to do with her being able to address more adult issues, too.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: I mean, kind of leading into some of the stuff that she talked about, we got an answer about Aberforth and those goats.

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: Which she filtered for kids.

Andrew: She did filter it for kids, because it was what? An eight year old asking the question?

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: [laughs] Which we can talk about that in a little bit, too, because I don’t know how that girl came up with that question.

Andrew: Yeah. We have all the questions here.

[Eric laughs]

Question: Did Neville Find Love?

Andrew: We’ll go through them in the order that they were asked, except for the Dumbledore one, we’ll save for last. So, the first one was about Neville and if he had found love. And Jo said that he actually ended up marrying the landlady from the Leaky Cauldron, which happened to be Hannah Abbott, which sounds like a good match, and living above the Leaky Cauldron would have impressed his students at Hogwarts, so that’s why he was living there. And then married Hannah Abbott, so good for him.

Laura: That’s happy.

Eric: Hmmm… Yeah the… Harry sort of blows up his aunt and that gets him a room above the Leaky Cauldron and Neville has to marry the landlady to get a room above the Leaky Cauldron.

Micah: Yeah.

Question: Why Molly Killed Bellatrix?

Andrew: The next question, which I thought was a very good question, it’s one of those questions we were like dying, well I personally was dying to hear the answer to. Interestingly though, still no answer about the veil. But anyway, someone asked her why she chose Molly to kill Bellatrix and she wanted to, this I think was basically our thinking anyway, she wanted to show that Molly was a really talented witch even though she spent most of her time in the kitchen, so she sort of comes out of nowhere and attacks. And then she also wanted to compare the obsession Bellatrix had with Voldemort to Molly’s maternal love for her children. So that was very fitting.

Laura: Yeah, I liked it a lot.

Andrew: It was very nice.

Laura: I thought that was good because I know even I felt, like before the book came out that I wanted Neville to finish Bellatrix off, but just thinking about her answer and thinking about the way she did it in the book, I thought it was perfect.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: And she did address the whole Neville side of it too, she said…

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: …she knew that a lot of people figured that it was going to be Neville because of the torturing of his parents but she decided to go with Molly instead.

Question: What if Arthur Had Died in Order of the Phoenix?

Andrew: Right. So the next question she was asked referred to what would have happened if Arthur had died in Order of the Phoenix, which was also a very good question because she revealed at one of her, I think it was the online chat session a while ago, after Deathly Hallows came out, she revealed that Arthur was one of the characters that got the reprieve, only it was actually in Book 5. So Jo said that it would’ve changed Books 5, 6, and 7 and that Ron’s character would have lost his sense of humor and it would’ve taken away Harry’s refuge at the Weasley home. And she also mentioned that Ron’s humor stemmed from insecurities and immaturity and that he was the last to become an adult by facing his fears in the last book. So, that was also a very good question.

Eric: Hmmm. Yeah that is interesting. Though, she doesn’t say though does she if – I know you said she didn’t answer the veil thing – but if Arthur Weasley died in Book 5 would Sirius still have at the end?

Laura: No, she didn’t say anything about that.

Eric: Oh okay, cool, cool, cool. Just checking.

Micah: Well, didn’t she say something about, and I could be wrong, killing off two of his father figures in one book wouldn’t have been a good idea?

Laura: I don’t remember…

Micah: You guys remember that at all?

Laura: …it specifically.

Andrew: I don’t remember that either.

Micah: Okay. I’m making it up. Anyway…

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: I thought I heard something about that, but maybe not.

Question: What is with Aberforth’s Goat?

Andrew: All right well, Micah, the next question really got you excited.

Laura: [laughs] What?

Andrew: An eight-year-old girl named Mia came up to and asked about Aberforth’s goat, and Jo asked her age and said that just for her – she said at the very end this answer was just for you, [laughs] which was very funny. So she asked about Aberforth’s goat and Jo said that the goats were easy to keep clean and that they had curly horns.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: And the audience basically just exploded at that because it was funny on multiple levels. I guess we won’t go into it but I think most mature listeners to our program will get what she’s trying to say. [whispering] Aberforth had a very special fascination with goats. We’ll just leave it at that.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Wait. Aberforth liked goats?

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: He did.

Micah: They have quite the family.

Eric: What?

Micah: You know that?

Andrew: Dumbledore…

Eric: That’s not cannon.

Andrew: …or Micah was standing…

Eric: That’s not cannon at all.

Andrew: …standing up and applauding for that.

Micah: I was. That question – I was standing up. It was a little awkward, but you know?

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I think this whole Aberforth and the goat thing is controversial. Why isn’t that getting just as much attention as the Dumbledore thing?

Andrew: Because nobody cares about Aberforth. He’s a secondary character and the goat…

Ben: Because we’ll get to that later why I – why personally why I think that Dumbledore is getting a lot more attention.

Andrew: Is it going to be a “give me a butterbeer?”

Micah: Should be.

Ben: Maybe an impromptu one. [laughs]

Andrew: Impromptu one.

Ben: Yeah, I think Andy’s article…

Eric: As opposed to planned…

Ben: ..was a “give me a butterbeer.”

Eric: Do you actually plan these butterbeer things?

Question: How did Ron know Parseltongue?

Andrew: It was. You should just read that and make it your own. So the next question was the Dumbledore question, we’ll get to that later like I said. And then she was asked about Parseltongue. And I think the question – questioner said to her, you know, how could Ron learn it so quickly and Jo answered that Ron had mastered one sound but it wouldn’t be a language someone could learn. Which is another thing…

Ben: I think that sounds so bogus though.

Andrew: It really does. It really does.

Ben: How can Ron master a sound? You know what I mean? I thought that…

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: How can he master the sound that means open? You know what I mean? How would he get up there…

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: How would he get up there and know what open was?

Laura: He heard Harry say it in the second book though didn’t he?

Eric: Oh and he was paying so much damn attention to the sounds he was making.

Ben: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: The sound it makes – the sound of that…

Ben: And the way…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Because he’s thinking at that moment when he’s trying to rescue his sister and is about to encounter the…

Laura: Yeah, but…

Eric: …giant snake skin. Oh I should remember this…

Laura: Haven’t we seen that…

Eric: …in case I ever need to come back down here.

Ben: [laughs] Yeah.

Laura: Haven’t we seen that he has like a really good…

Eric: A photographic memory?

Laura: No. Like, haven’t we seen that he like has kind of a talent with voices? Like at one point he mimics… Who is it?

Ben: I know, but what I’m saying…

Laura: Gosh I can’t remember. I feel like he mimics a character at one point.

Ben: I know but okay…

Laura: And I’m not saying it’s valid justification, I’m just saying that she did kind of lead up to it.

Ben: Okay. Not really because here’s what the argument I’m making is that going up there – and the word open – think about how many words there are in the English dictionary. Okay? There’s thousands and millions of words. If in Parseltongue there has to be something equivalent to each word, in some way whether it’s, like the phrasing may be different or whatever, but how would he get up there an just know to randomly hiss? Like, you know what I mean like, how would he know to do open because there’s so many things, there’s so many words. Like if I didn’t know a language, if I didn’t know Spanish, and I got up and I needed to say “open” in Spanish, I wouldn’t know what to do. I would have no idea what to do. You know what I mean?

Eric: Oh wait, Ben. Are you…

Ben: Is this making sense?

Eric: Are you debating that Ron – sorry, are you arguing that Ron shouldn’t have known what or shouldn’t have listened to what Harry said and been able to reproduce it accurately? Or are you saying that Harry shouldn’t have been able to open the chamber in Book 2 by just saying, “open”? Do you think he should have said instead like, “give me cheesy puffs or something”? And you know…

Ben: No, I’m saying Ron, Ron shouldn’t have been able to open the chamber.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Oh well, yeah.

Ben: Because he didn’t – that one sound – I don’t care if he heard Harry say it because like you said he was in the moment he wasn’t actually going to remember what that sounded like.

Eric: Oh, no, right. No, I get exactly what you’re saying, yeah. You’re right and I mean how much diversity – I mean you’ve probably got to use dialect. It’s just that, I feel like that was a weak point, and JKR just wanted to move on with it.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: But I think that’s an obvious flaw in Book 7.

Ben: Let’s move on, too.

Question: What was in Dumbledore’s Letter in Book 1?

Andrew: Yeah. Next question was, and these are really a great set of questions, what was in Dumbledore’s letter to the Dursley’s in Book 1. Jo responded by saying that Petinua had wanted to go to Hogwarts, and by taking in Harry, she was taking in a part of the world that she never participated in. Because, like I just said, that we’d found out that Petunia wanted to go to Hogwarts. Which I guess is a pretty nice explanation. Better than some.

Ben: That is a good explanation, I think.

Eric: I liked it, yeah.

Ben: I mean, that makes sense to what she would say.

Andrew: Right.

Ben: To what Harry would say. I mean, excuse me, what Dumbledore would have said to Petunia. Sorry. [laughs].

Eric: Yeah, so I’m confused guys, just because – I think this is a great answer, but are you sure that Dumbledore said that Petunia couldn’t go to Hogwarts? Because I think I remember him saying she could if she wanted to, even though she’s a muggle? Because I honestly thought somewhere in the book when it was talking about that, that he had said she could, that he would make some kind of strange allowance. Because I know normally muggles can’t see Hogwarts. I think somewhere in the book, didn’t it say he could make an allowance for her, even though muggles can’t normally see Hogwarts and all that stuff?

Laura: I don’t think that he said that, I think that Lily was trying to give Petunia hope.

Andrew: Ahhh. Yeah.

Laura: Like she said something along the lines of maybe he would consider it, or something along those lines.

Eric: Oh.

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: You know, maybe if you appealed to him he might, but I don’t think Dumbledore said that.

Eric: Okay, because I thought that he did, but then Petunia for some reason turned it down a little bit.

Laura: No.

Eric: Because I was…

Laura: No. Because he wrote her and told her “no,” like she wrote him and then…

Ben: I think if there’s a any wizard that would let a muggle into Hogwarts, it would be Dumbledore though.

Laura: Oh yeah, definitely.

Eric: But he did write a letter to Petunia, didn’t he?

Ben: You know what I mean? Just because of like, how tolerant he is.

Eric: Yeah. No, I agree.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: Hmmm.

Question: Why did the Basilisk Fang not kill the Horcrux in Harry?

Andrew: Another question, was a question that a lot of fans had ended up figuring out anyway. It was in reference to the Basilisk, and why did it not kill Voldemort’s soul in Harry. Rowling stated that “Harry was not destroyed beyond repair because Fawkes was there to heal him, but later conveniently absent when other horcruxes were destroyed.” So that was another easy question to address.

Question: Why didn’t Harry consult Dumbledore’s Portrait?

Eric: Okay so, Jo replied, when asked about Dumbledore and why Harry didn’t consult Dumbledore’s portrait, assuming he was at Hogwarts enough to, she listed three options which I think cover it. “One, the portrait was not available as it was at Hogwarts, two, Dumbledore didn’t want to tempt Harry with the Hallows, but wanted him to learn of them slowly due to Harry’s flaws, and that three, it was too easy and there wouldn’t have been much of a plot if Harry just spoke to Dumbledore’s portrait.” So.

Andrew: Exactly.

Eric: What was this reaction in the guys? Because I wasn’t there, obviously.

Andrew: Well, answer three was met with a lot of applause, wasn’t it?

Laura: Yeah, it made people laugh.

Andrew: People were like, yeah Jo, duh!

Eric: [laughs] Yeah. And this was a good point though.

Andrew: Good point Jo!

Eric: There were so many questions after the Dumbledore one, that it just seems to awkward that anything would have continued, you know, because sort of the rest of the world stopped ticking for a little bit.

Andrew: Right, right. Well, let’s…

Eric: You know, there wasn’t even a mysterious ticking noise. It was just sort of, the world stopped ticking.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. Well lets move on, let’s move on as we inch closer to the big reveal.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: Oooh!

Question: Were the Death Eaters based on the Nazis?

Andrew: So someone asked a very intelligent question, another thing we’ve talked about on the show before. Someone wanted to try to confirm with Jo that the Death Eaters were based on the Nazis. And Jo answered by saying that “it was a conscious decision and people will die, and that you shouldn’t believe what your government or newspapers tell you” which was also met with applause.

Laura: Oh yeah.

Andrew: So, you know, she said, well what do you think “conscious decision” meant? Like, just that she felt…

Ben: It just means that she meant to draw that parallel.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Laura: And she said that she wasn’t only trying to draw a parallel specifically to the Nazis, that she, like you said, was trying to draw a parallel between governments and corruption in general.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: It just so happens that, you know, there’s a strong correlation there with the Nazis.

Micah: When she said that you shouldn’t believe what your government or newspapers tell you, she said something else, I can’t remember exactly what it was, but she took a little shot at possibly someone who is in power right now.

Laura: Yeah, I remember specifically what she said too. She was, “like certain political regimes we all know and love.” But she said it extremely sarcastic.

[Andrew and Micah laughs]

And at that point, I just cheered. I thought that was great

Micah: Yeah, I stood up for that too.

Laura: Send me hate mail if you want, I don’t care.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Goats and politics.

Andrew: Micah actually had pom poms, and whenever something came out that was really exciting to him, he would just swing them around. It was pretty funny.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: Oh god. I can see that on YouTube now.

Micah: Goats and politics. That’s what I cheered for.

Question: How did it feel to finish Book 1 compared to Book 7?

Andrew: Someone asked Jo, “how does it compare, finishing the first book compared to finishing the writing of the seventh book?” and she said that it actually felt the same, it felt very similar, and her husband, who was in attendance, heated her for a few weeks after Book 7 was finished because she was “unbearable to live with” I guess just being very emo. If you will. Because, you know, the book is over.

Ben: Imagine how weird that would be though, after how much time you’ve put into it…

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: All the things you’ve done, all the money you’ve made. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: You know, just to sit back and thing wow, it’s done.

Extra Questions

Andrew: It’s done. Yeah. And let’s see, then oh guys, this was the big surprise of the night. It was actually the disappointment of the night. Jo had answered 12 questions at that point, and then a voice came over the speaker system in the place, and it was a loud booming voice, and he pretended to be God, and Jo played around with him like, oh am I in trouble? Or something like that.

[Eric laughs]

Laura, Micah, do you remember what she said?

Laura: She said, “and they say I don’t believe in you.”

Andrew: [laughs] Oh yeah.

Eric: [laughs] I didn’t hear about that. I’m sorry!

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: And everyone was like oh, what’s the big surprise? They were like, the guy was like “we have a surprise!” and this guy comes out, nobody knows who he is, he’s just some schmuck from Scholastic who was trying to entertain the crowd while the book signing was occurring. But anyway, he comes out and is like “big surprise, Jo is going to answer more questions for everyone!” Which was good. We got what, three more questions? Or four more questions.

Laura: Yeah.

Question: Does Draco owe Harry a life debt?

Andrew: So the first question was if Malfoy owed Harry a life debt, and Jo stated that “there was no magical tie between the two, but Malfoy had to be forever grateful to Harry for saving his life after all.” It’s sort of like the thing that always happens with the bad guy where the good guy saves the bad guy’s life and then the bad guy doesn’t really owe him anything, but the bad guy just always has to admit, yeah you did save my life, that’s true.

Eric: And sort of backs off – the whole prejudice thing.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Bad M.C. and Panting Lady

Andrew: Right. And then the next question was from the very top of Carnegie Hall, this girl had to book it all the way down to the bottom.

Laura: Oh, yeah. That was hilarious.

Andrew: And, you know, this guy who was hosting was a good M.C. – no wait he was terrible…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: …Worst host in the world. Way to go Scholastic.

Eric: You guys should have me her.

Andrew: Yeah we should have, quick pre-show.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: It did take her like two hours to come down so…

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: …it would have been good filler. But…

Ben: “The Pre-show”.

Andrew: “The Pre-show”

Ben: Still looking for that tape by the way.

Andrew: Yeah. So, this guy M.C.-ing is waiting for this chick to come down and the whole time I am thinking “Why not call someone else up?”

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: The next person was right in the front row anyway. She could have taken two steps to the microphone. But, like I said we had to wait for this, anyway whatever, its all said and done now, but…

[Eric laughs]

Ben: Yeah. I mean I am sure that is what you are thinking about, gosh.

Laura: That was what I was thinking.

Ben: “I have to wait a whole two minutes for her to come down.

Laura: Well, no…

Andrew: That is what I was, no seriously…

Laura: That had to have been embarrassing for her too.

Andrew: I was sitting there thinking, “Call someone else up”.

Laura: Because when she got there she was panting and heaving for breath and like, trying to ask her a question I would have been…

Eric: And then she falls over and dies. [laughs]

Laura: and she was up on a big screen too so you can see her like, gasping for air.

Ben: Well, maybe the M.C. is just a jerk. You know what I mean?

Andrew: Maybe, yeah he was. He was just a bad M.C.

Ben: Okay, almost like, a quick question. Laura, how did you Andrew, and Micah get into this thing? That is what I am wondering.

Andrew: Well, we will get to that at the end.

Ben: All right.

MuggleCast 117 Transcript (continued)

Question: Would Snape’s Portrait be hung at Hogwarts?

Andrew: We will thank those who let us in. All right so the next question, the last question of the night besides the Dumbledore question, referred to Snape’s portraits and Rowling answered that Harry would have insisted that it would be hung in the Headmaster’s office at Hogwarts but that he would probably have not visited it to converse with Snape. And Jo still surprised when she said that fans are torn about Snape, who is a complicated character and stated that Snape was bitter, vindictive and mean and everyone, once Jo revealed that Harry would have insisted that Snape’s portrait be hung in the office I think there was a collective, “Awww!”

Question: What did James, Lily, Sirius and Lupin do for work?

Micah: Did we answer these two questions?

Eric: Yeah, okay Donna, the one who, and I can not make fun of her because I have not seen her and I would not make fun of her so, she just says “What were the occupations of James, Lily, Sirius, and Lupin, after they graduated Hogwarts?” and actually I can make fun of Jo’s response because she just basically says, Lupin was unemployable, because he is a werewolf, which does not leave any hope for any fan fiction. You know, werewolves, they never get jobs so them as a class they are just diminished. And also everyone else was a bit of a slacker. They never had to be employed because James was rich. They also worked full time for the Order. Which I suppose is a respectable job in the after fact because there was a war going on at the time. So, I will not make fun, but I do think it would have been fun to see them suitable for other jobs. Like, ask any of them…

Micah: But, is that a sufficient answer though? I mean…

Eric: Yeah, it is, it is sufficient. Well, I mean are you saying it might not be? Because, like they work for the Order?

Micah: Well, yeah like wasn’t there a lot of talk about Lily’s job being important?

Laura: Yeah. There was.

Eric: Oh, oh, right.

Micah: She’s just a bum.

Laura: I was convinced that she was either a Seer or she worked in the Department of Mysteries or something crazy like that. And then we find out that she didn’t. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, people thought about that.

Micah: So basically James was her sugar daddy?

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Well, love, money, [sighs] yeah. [sings] “I ain’t saying she’s a gold digger.” [laughs] Okay.

Andrew: [laughs unenthusiastically] Yeah.

Laura: Eric, no. [laughs]

Andrew and

Eric: [singing] “I ain’t saying she’s a gold digger.”

Eric: [continues singing] “She aint messing with no broke, broke…”

Ben: How about [sings] “Soulja Boy…”

Laura: Is it me or is everybody’s school is doing that dance? Everyone is doing that dance.

Ben: Ummm, actually the only person I have seen do it is Emerson and I didn’t think it was funny at all.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: It is ridiculous everyone I know is doing that dance and I just stand there and watch them like “why?” I would never in my life, but anyway.

Andrew: I do not even know what that is. All I know is the moves in Hairspray.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Anyway, I…

Laura: Speaking of which… [laughs]

Dumbledore’s Sexuality

Andrew: And now for a complete change in subject Dumbledore is [high pitch] gay! You see my voice…

Ben: Wow.

Andrew: I still have my high voice back. Did you guys hear about this? Dumbledore, it was revealed by J.K. Rowling at this Carnegie Hall book reading, Dumbledore is gay. This girl came up and said “What about Dumbledore’s love life? Where has it been? What girl was he hooking up with?’ and she revealed “Well, I always pictured Dumbledore as being gay. And that, it did not sink in for me at first because it did not feel like a definitive answer because she said “I always pictured as Dumbledore as being gay” like, that is what she said right?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Is that all she said?

Andrew: “I always saw as Dumbledore being gay”

Laura: Yeah, but then she said that he was in love with Grindelwald. So…

Micah: Yeah. Well, when I first heard this I thought it was going along the lines of, “Well, I always saw Dumbledore,” and then I thought I was going to hear a “with professor so and so”, like “with Professor McGonagall” you know? And, I do not know, I was really shocked. I did not expect to hear that.

Ben: I do not know. But see, I woke up I was not – the news did not change much.

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: You know what I mean? I did not really care because; okay for example, I got this e-mail here from someone who sent it in. It was a 45-year old from Lake Whiley, South Carolina, I’ll leave the name out of this, it said:

“I know I have no way of relaying this message to the author herself but maybe you can. I know you often have opportunities to discuss certain issues with her. I am a reasonably tolerant person with the tenant of live and let live, but with her announcement with Dumbledore “coming out of the closet,” that just ruined the whole thing for me. Yuck. That was a really stupid move on her part.”

[Everyone laughs sarcastically]

Ben: “It would have been better if he had an unrequited love for Minerva or Bethilda, or someone we had not have met yet.”

Eric: Better for your agenda.

Ben: “I will never read the books in the same light ever again and I have probably never have been so disappointed in anyone in my whole life.”

[sigh] That is pretty sad.

Eric: All right.

Ben: “I will have to try and have to put this out of my mind and pretend she never said this in order for me to read the books again. If you can, please relay my comments I am definitely sure that I am not the only one who feels this way and I am sure that it is going to jump up and slap her in the face at some time.”

Andrew: Oh, my god.

Eric: Oh, it won’t slap her in the face.

Ben: “Most sincerely yours.”

Eric: Okay you would get ignorant fans sending this in, e-mails okay?

Ben: Okay, but see, what I am saying is that I just do not understand how anyone can actually react this way.

Laura: No.

Ben: It is an issue that, is is really deep in our society and I think it has gotten better over the years.

Andrew: Definitely.

Ben: Gay, homosexuality in America has become a lot more tolerated, but at the same time you still have those people who have the mentality of a jock, in high school who thinks “Oh my gosh, someone is gay, you know?” You know, “Loser.”

Eric: Yeah.

Ben: …you know, that is the first thing that comes to my mind. How could they ever be like that you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: And I still don’t see how anyone can really criticize, because they weren’t Dumbledore. They didn’t grow up in the same circumstances he did. They didn’t have the infatuation with Grindelwald. They just didn’t know, you know? And they didn’t – I don’t know. I just think…

Eric: And being 150 years old, nobody could have sort of grown up with him.

Ben: No, you know what I mean though.

Laura: It’s not even that. Does him being gay, does it change anything?

Andrew: No.

Laura: Does it change his wisdom and all the good things he did? No! It doesn’t.

Eric: No. Okay, the whole thing is, and my initial problem when I heard it, my initial fear was oh great, because the previous Mugglecast Episode, 116, “Pig for Slaughter,” we were thinking well, I tried to raise some issues against Dumbledore. I tried to say maybe he is not so great. I tried to say that maybe he is not the greatest hero of all time.

Andrew: Yeah…

Eric: So, I kind of made a case type thing and then all of the sudden he is gay, and that is such a big issue in history and in current culture and society, I thought, oh great! Whereas I wanted to point him out as a flawed character, now that he actually is gay, anything that I might have said is now heald for the case against Dumbledore, which certain homophobic people might turn against and say, “Oh you know he is weak and he is stupid and he’s gay.” So…

Micah: Right.

Eric: So, we shouldn’t read the Harry Potter books. Also, I know several people who come from fundamentally Christian families who that upset and whose parents gave them another reason to hate Harry, and I’m not saying that Jo shouldn’t have mentioned it, but I am saying that it was quite sensitive that she did mention it. Maybe it should have been treated a little bit more sensitively, I think, because of the uproar.

Laura: I don’t think so. I completely disagree.

Eric: Because of how much, how large the fan base is.

Ben: Okay, but do you think, do you really think, do you honestly think that Jo has always seen Dumbledore as being gay, or do you think that she saw after the fact, that “Hey, now that I have sold all my books…”

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: “…now that I have done all these things, I can come out with a statement for something that I believe in?” You know, obvoiusly, I bet she’s a supporter of gay rights.

Eric: Oh, of course.

Ben: Yeah, and maybe she is coming out and saying this, becuase she wants to take someone in a powerful position, someone who is regarded as “the greatest wizard of all time,” you know, and he is gay. You know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah, It’s a great thing to – I agree with what you are saying.

Laura: I don’t know. I don’t think that…

Ben: I support her in what she has done.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: I give her the thumbs up.

Andrew: I am glad that you brought this email up, because I was trying to find a e-mail that was a negative response – was this sent to your personal e-mail address?

Ben: Yeah. I was.

Andrew: Oh, okay. I was looking through the mugglecast at staff, and I couldn’t find anyone giving a negative opinion, which was good.

Ben: And someone else sent me an e-mail saying “a Christian response to homosexuality.”

Laura: Oh, yeah. I saw that.

Andrew: Yes, we all got that

Ben: Really? Okay.

Laura: Ohhhh…

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: And there was just line after line of quoting the Bible…

Laura: Of crap!

Ben: …and quoting all these things, and it’s just…

Eric: Yeah, look…

Ben: I am not saying Christians are right, Christians are wrong.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: I am not saying anything like that, but what I am saying is, you have got to face the facts. Not everybody is a Christian, and for a Christian to say that you should have to, or that everyone should have to follow what I believe, and that because I say homosexuality is wrong, then it is wrong, that’s just even more closed minded.

Eric: And religions are that way, but I just wanted to draw a distinction. You asked, “How does that effect how he taught Harry?” That is the real question and the real answer is, I don’t think it does.

Andrew: No, of course not.

Eric: And the whole, the whole thing behind it – and there is a clinical reason behind it too. There is quite a differece. There is quite a difference between homosexuality, being a gay man, and liking or corrupting little boys.

Andrew: Oh yeah. [laughs] And come on, Eric. You are pushing it now. We know that.

Laura: No, no, no. That is a little… Yeah.

Ben: But Eric is right though, when he is saying that is what the reaction has been from people. They say things like, “I can never see his relationship with Harry the same.”

Andrew: Yeah, which is “BS”.

Ben: That is the equivalent of saying that if in the books, Dumbledore had a really close relationship with Hermione, that that is a bad thing, because if he was straight. If he was straight and he had a relationship with a younger female, where he taught Hermione a lot, that it was a bad thing. Just because someone is gay, doesn’t automatically mean they are a pedophile. If someone is straight, it doesn’t mean – you know what I mean?

Eric: No. Pedophilia and homosexuality, yeah.

Ben: People just try to make that association, and it is just stigmatised in our society is all it is, and to be honest with you, it annoyes me that it was a big deal, because the morning – day after J.K. ROwling announced this, the next morning, Emerson, I’m living at his house now. He gets a phone call from Fox News, Geraldo wants Emerson to be on to talk about this.

[Eric sighs]

Laura: Of course.

Ben: I am all for publicity for MuggleNet, but at the same time the first thought that came to my mind was, “Why is everyone making such a big deal out of this?”

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Why does this change anything? Why does this a big deal, but I guess some people out there aren’t as tolerant.

Andrew: Yeah, I’ll tell you what…

Laura: Well, to be perfectly honest, what really annoys me – I am sorry to cut you off Andrew, but…

Andrew: It’s okay.

Laura: If you will remember, when we were in the City after that reading, every time we got in a cab and you put the radio on…

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: All you could hear was, “Author J.K. Rowling says Albus Dumbledore is gay.”

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Okay. Nevermind that there are fires in California and people dying all over the world…

Andrew: Ugh.

Laura: … but who cares, because Dumbledore is gay.

Micah: Right.

Laura: And that really bothered me alot.

Micah: The thing was, I told Andrew that this too, I had three people come up to me on Monday morning…

Laura: Oh my god.

Micah: …and ask me what is up with this? What is going on? Is this ligitimate? Is she serious? And…

Laura: Everyone here is saying the same thing.

Micah: What I want to say about this though is that it is a perfectly legitimate answer to the question that was asked by this girl.

Andrew: Right, exactly.

Micah: People are thinking that she just stood up and made this proclamation to the audience, which she didn’t do!

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Micah: She asked a perfectly legitimate question, and she gave a perfectly legitimate answer, and she explained that answer to.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: I don’t understand what the big deal is about that.

Andrew: And it was a very direct question too, and she wasn’t trying to – at the beginning of the day she wasn’t thinking, okay somehow today I have got to get into the question and answer that Dumbledore is gay. It was a very straight, direct question, “What about Dumbledore’s love life?” What is she going to do? Lie? Just be like, “Eh, it was all right.”

Laura: That is what she said.

Andrew: The fans want this information.

Eric: There was another further clarification that she made in the news a few days later, and she said that she thinks that kids will see that relationship in Book 7 with the writing letter between Dumbledore and Grindelwald, that kids will see it as a friendship and more sensitive adults will see it as an infatuation.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And that is what she said. So, I don’t know how she clarified it in the event I thought maybe you guys could…

Andrew: I mean, but no – I mean, all she said after our reaction, the audience reaction, was, “Oh, if I knew that you were going to take it that tremendously I would have told you sooner.” So, I mean, I think she has – going back to what Ben said a little bit ago, I think she has had this in her head from the beginning. I think she said in an interview. She was like, she was getting mad at the press in Canada because that’s all they wanted to talk about, and I think she said, “Well, if I revealed it back during Book 1, there would have been no mystery to it.” She said, “I couldn’t reveal it any earlier. I had to wait for all the books to come out.”

Eric: It is – in a way, I can see how it relates to Dumbledore’s story as told in Book 7, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Dumbledore and Grindelwald

Eric: And really not much the rest of it. Though I mean, she calls him – on one hand, she does call him gay, like, immediately. She says, “I always saw him as gay.” On the other hand, she draws close attention to his relationship with Grindelwald as having sort of a, I mean, he had a – I wouldn’t call it a man-crush. It was an infatuation, but Dumbledore was…

Ben: [laughs] A man-crush.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I’m just saying, Dumbledore was 16 at the time, and Grindelwald was very powerfully minded, and they sort of tried to – I mean, now I’m just hearing all these jokes about Grindelwald being in his jail cell and Dumbledore going to visit him, and there’s all sorts of- you know? But I just – I’m tired of hearing that stuff. But it’s really a question of did that relationship continue, and some of the questions in the show notes, was Grindelwald gay, too, or what was the deal with that? And sort of, Grindelwald really hurt Albus’ sister, and did he kill Kendra? So, how exactly did that go down? I just think people want a little more clarification, as well as to what exactly that means because people were asking, “What does that mean?” And then everybody in the room…

Micah: But who cares?

Andrew: That’s the thing.

Eric: Prejudice gets all into…

Andrew: It’s not that big of a deal. It’s a fun fact.

Eric: And I said jokingly after this event when we were walking back to the hotel, I said, “You know what? The fandom is dying down, news was slow. I think Jo just did this to just get the fandom rolling again.” But I was kidding.

[Laura laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: No, but it definitely, all of a sudden, Harry Potter, you know, the books and the hype is starting to die down, and then “Oh my god, the old white-haired dude is gay!”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, it explodes. Yeah, I mean, I knew this was more press than Book 7 coming out, almost.

Eric: I think so, too, actually

Andrew: It’s up there. It was the number one story on Digg last week. The top story in all topics for one day.

Laura: That’s ridiculous.

Eric: Still, I don’t think it’s publicity. She has to consider like…

Andrew: It’s not publicity.

Eric: I just think, is it? Yeah. It can’t be publicity. Like Micah said, it was a legitimate question. I’m just wondering if it hurt more people than it saved.

Andrew: Well, it didn’t hurt…

Laura: It doesn’t hurt anybody. It’s ridiculous.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Anyone who hurt from that was taking it the wrong way.

Andrew: Yeah, and needs to get a life.

Eric: I’m not talking about the people you heard from, Ben. I’m talking about the people who – like the children, whose parents are banning them from the books or some [omitted]. I mean, I agree that that’s ignorant.

Banning Books From Children

Andrew: Okay, let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about that. Hold on, wait. First of all, we have no evidence parents are banning the children from the books, just because of that. I mean, there’s no storyline in the actual books themselves.

Ben: But I can see that though.

Laura: And the thing is, there are a lot of…

Andrew: Could you?

Laura: People I’ve heard from, even here at school, that have come up to me and say, I’m not upset that Dumbledore’s gay, but I’m upset she took that ambiguity out of the books. And my first response is, well, you’ve already finished reading the books, so what does it matter to you, and my second response is even though she said he’s gay, it’s still open in the books. You can read that so many different ways. It could have been simply down to the fact that Dumbledore and Grindelwald had a deep intellectual relationship. It didn’t necessarily have to be sexual. If you want to read it that way, that’s your perogative, but she’s the author, and she has a right to sit there and call out the facts when she’s asked questions.

Andrew: And it’s her characters.

Eric: Yeah. But that makes it a fact in the book. That – if she always believed he is gay, is he even without it being canon, words in the books? That’s the question of what becomes – who’s the author of a text, who determines meaning, if it’s not written in the book, does it still mean something? And I mean, just like any question she’ll answer that’s post after the fact would you consider it as canon, or – I mean, she’s giving canon answers, so yes, it is canon, in a way. But, again, I mean, what you said the person said, they take the ambiguity out of the books, and I’m just worried that it will work sort of against the series.

Laura: There is plenty of ambiguity still there in the books.

Eric: I mean, I’m not saying it should. It shouldn’t.

Ben: I agree with where Eric is coming from here. I thought about the same thing. Isn’t this going to give more fire to the religious fanatics who are saying – the Laura Mallory camp?

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Who cares though?

Ben: Isn’t it going to give a lot more fire to them?

Laura: You’re never going to change the minds of those people, so why does it matter?

Ben: I’m just saying that there are some people who would like Harry Potter and ignore the religious objections, but when something like homosexuality comes into play, even though it’s not actually in the books, the fact that the author said that, everyone is talking about it, everyone knows that Dumbledore is gay now, would definitely add – fuel the fire of the people who want to ban the book.

Eric: Hey, look, Ben, I mean, I just don’t want to think of Dumbledore as sexual, let alone homosexual, or heterosexual. I thought of Dumbledore in the books as – he’s the role model.

Laura: He’s asexual. [laughs]

Eric: He’s the wise old wizard, but he’s so much more intelligent. There are so many allegories that Dumbledore makes about – and so many things he tells Harry about “the high and lonely path,” about “being cleverer than more men, your mistakes are bigger, but it’s lonely.” And if all that was just sort of talk because he was having some kind of difficulties in a relationship in his current situation, I just think I would view Dumbledore as non-sexual, or asexual, let alone…

Laura: I don’t know. I don’t think so because…

Ben: Wouldn’t have been awesome if Jo would have come out and announced that Dumbledore as metrosexual?

[Everybody laughs]

Ben: That would have really shaken up the fandom right there.

Laura: The idea of Dumbledore as somebody – I mean it’s a very Kantian idea that, you know? I live my life without any sort of sexual – you know, any sort of sexual relationship, whether that relationship is purely mental, or whether it’s actually physical. And I don’t think Dumbledore would operate that way because…

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: …he continually emphasizes the importance of love.

Andrew: Right, yep.

Laura: So, him to you know – no. He’s not a Emmaneul Kant, thank god.

Ben: Regardless of which set of genitals Dumbledore prefers…

[Laura laughs]

Ben: It doesn’t change the fact that he was an absolute pimp.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely.

Ben: The things he did! You know what I mean, who else could blast a room full or aurors? I don’t care – I don’t care if he likes other guys, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Little guys?

Eric: Not little guys, he’s not a pedophile.

Laura: He said other guys.

Ben: Other guys, not little guys.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Then Flitwick would be in trouble.

[Andrew laughs]

The Fandom’s Acceptance

Laura: And what it comes down to is, I’m sorry, there is nothing wrong with being gay, so just get over it. Like, that’s what I have to say. Chill out. Please.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well put, Laura.

Ben: I don’t have a problem with putting my opinion about that out there. I mean…

Laura: No, me neither.

Ben: Someone – I can argue with someone all day about that so if you have a problem with it…

Andrew: Well, here’s…

Ben: …take me on.

Andrew: Here’s one very good thing…

Ben: You know what, guys? I need a whole keg of butterbeer for this one.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: You know what I mean? This issue just gets me so fired up.

Andrew: I know. Well, here’s one good thing about the Harry Potter fandom. The fandom is very…

Laura: [laughing] Diverse?

Andrew: …accepting of gay people.

Eric: Didn’t you say, Laura, before the show that 75% of the fandom…

Laura: Eric, we can’t say that.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: We’ll leave that out.

Andrew: We will – we will say there’s a large…

Laura: There is a gay community within the Harry Potter fandom.

Andrew: Well, yes.

Ben: I’m not going to lie. Yeah, that’s totally true. I grew up in Kansas, you know, and Kansas has – is not very tolerant of homosexuals and I didn’t meet a person who was gay until – it was – it was through Harry Potter! It was through the Harry Potter fandom that I met a lot of gay people, and it – I’m not saying – of course, I just preached about gay rights and how I support gay rights so, obviously, I’m not saying it’s a bad thing that I’ve met those people because they’re wonderful people. There’s a lot of homosexuals I’ve met that are absolutely great people.

Eric: Same.

Andrew: Mhm. And I’ll say right now and – there’s more than one, at the least, bisexual person producing MuggleCast. And everyone’s accepting of it. Everyone is very embraceful of it, we’ll say. And there are even more people – I’m not trying to out anyone – there are even more people on MuggleNet who are. And it’s amazing just because even the people on staff are, you know, very accepting of it and it helps them get through it.

Laura: And the thing is, like, no one even gives it a second thought. That’s the thing. We just don’t care.

Eric: No, it’s true.

Andrew: Right, right.

Eric: Harry Potter spoke to all of us, you know what I saying? I mean, these books have been so amazing. They get people of all different types and everything into the fandom. That’s what makes our fandom, sort of – I don’t want to say the best, but, you know, our fandom is really cool like that. And, you know, Harry Potter speaks to such mass amounts of people. Not just girls, not just guys, that sort of thing. It speaks to everyone.

Tangent: Aberforth and The Goats

Micah: Then, what does it speak to if it doesn’t speak to men and women?

Andrew: Dude, Micah, you got to get closer to the mic.

Eric: It speaks to goat lovers!

Micah: Sorry.

Eric: Yeah, you do.

Andrew: Yeah. It speaks to goat lovers.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Goat lovers. [laughs]

Andrew: We are very accepting of goat lovers.

Laura: Uh…well.

Andrew: If there are any of you in the closet, so to speak, please e-mail in.

Ben: See, I mean,I mean, come on, if anything, if anything is disgusting – I mean, you know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: People think that…

Laura: A goat.

Ben: Homosexuals are disgusting, but come on, there’s a dude in the series who loves the goat.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Why is everyone freaking out about that, you know what I mean?

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I mean…

Andrew: That’s a great point.

Ben: You see, not only was Dumbledore gay, but his brother was in love with goats, you know? It’s gross.

Andrew: Yeah. What was his sister into, you got to wonder?

Eric: You know, some people…

Ben: What a weird family.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: You know what, I have my own interpretation about what happened with his sister, actually, but that’s probably for another show.

Eric: Some people feel bad for the mother, because your son’s into goats – your one son’s into goats, your other son’s into guys and your daughter gets killed, so you won’t have any grandkids, you know?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Fair point.

Eric: Someone said that. That shouldn’t even be funny. Somebody said that.

Micah: That’s horrible.

Ben: What did he say?

Andrew: No, that’s very…

Eric: You should feel bad for Dumbledore’s mother, you know, just because the parental thing is to always, sort of, want grandkids. And Dumbledore would adopt…

Ben: But he could adopt.

Eric: He’d have to find a mate, and he’s so intelligent that…

Andrew: He can adopt, he can adopt. It’s true.

Eric: See, I didn’t think Dumbledore was compatible with anyone because of how intelligent he was.

Ben: Actually, I heard men can get pregnant in the wizarding world.

Andrew: That could happen, you know?

Eric: Yeah, or they could turn themselves…

Andrew: Men have holes, too.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Into – they could use Polyjuice. Whoa, Andrew! That’s uncalled for.

Ben: I’d take that part out. You would know.

[Everyone laughs]

MuggleCast 117 Transcript (continued)

Back to Grindelwald

Andrew: Oh, god. Okay, well, let’s – let’s keep advancing this discussion here. I mean, it raises the question – was Grindelwald gay? But…

Ben: But, see, the way that Jo put it, like, I don’t know if – I don’t know whether to infer that he was because, I mean…

Andrew: Yeah. I don’t think he was.

Ben: Look at the letters. We see letters between them and if it’s true, I mean, if Jo said it’s unrequited then, it for sure – I don’t think that Grindelwald would necessarily have to be gay.

Andrew: Yeah. I think I agree with that.

Ben: I mean, I guess if Grindelwald…

Laura: I mean, he could have been, but…

Ben: …could – I guess Grindelwald could have been gay, but just not like Dumbledore, but I have a feeling that Dumbledore and Grindelwald were tight when they were teenagers, you know, they were really close then and Dumbledore just fell in love.

Andrew: Mhm. Yeah. I think so too.

Laura: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Remus and Sirius

Andrew: Okay, and this begs the question – now what’s interesting is that a while ago, I want to say a year and a half ago – year to year and a half ago – Jamie suggested that we have a discussion on – oh, what were the two characters? Lupin and…

Laura: And Sirius.

Andrew: And Sirius possibly being in a relationship. And we told him “no” because it’s sort of – it wasn’t the right time to do that and it just wasn’t really appropriate for, you know, the listeners. But now, we have to ask, what other characters are gay?

Laura: I mean, yeah, it’s obviously – it’s something she’s been thinking about, so it’s possible that there is someone else.

Andrew: I think it’s very, very, very, very possible that there are more than one that we know of. We just don’t know them yet.

Ben: Guys, guys, guys, I think, you know, I really hate to put this out there because I have friends who really like this character and stuff, but I think Dawlish might be gay.

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: Dawlish? What evidence leads you to that.

Ben: Yeah. I don’t know. Just his name. Just the way people say his name, too.

Andrew: It is kind of…

Ben: [drawing it out] Dawlish.

Andrew: Yeah. I hear what you’re saying.

Ben: Sounds kind of gay to me. I don’t know.

Andrew: We don’t have to sit around and speculate it because we’ve been talking about this enough, but…

Eric: No, no, it’s all ambiguous. Should we – should we ask Jay – should we ask Jo if that’s…

Andrew: Yes, absolutely, someone should be asking her.

Laura: I think so.

Andrew: I…

Eric: It shouldn’t get more…

Andrew: Who else has had a love life that we don’t really know about? Like…

Eric: Remus Lupin.

Laura: No, he’s not.

Andrew: No.

Eric: That’s a question. With news – Remus and does that really mean because you guys take a look at the David Thewlis news.

Andrew: Yeah, he thought.

Eric: Micah, did you put this in your news this week?

Micah: What’s that?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, but he still could be.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: He still could be because, in fact, I reckon that Remus Lupin’s character in the whole book series – there’s actually a lot between, behind the Remus/Sirius shippers.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I reckon – I thought that was the most canon relationship in slash to be honest. I mean, I actually thought that was true. And if you actually want to read, sort of, between the lines in Book 7, I think a lot – I mean, how else would you explain, in a way, Remus’ insecurities? I think a lot of what happened was that he wasn’t sure in Book 6 if he wanted to get with Tonks because he was still feeling – maybe he was feeling bad about Sirius. There’s honestly…

Laura: Or maybe he…

Eric: …certain ways Remus behaved allowed me to think that he might be homosexual or have had sort of more than friendly feelings for Sirius in the past. Now, just because he married Tonks and got her pregnant doesn’t mean he wasn’t gay. And, additionally, maybe he married her because he got her pregnant. I mean…

Micah: No, I…

Eric: Is that sort of…

Laura: Oh, that’s…

Eric: How did that work out?

Laura: …completely possible. At the same time, you have to consider his only reason for not wanting to marry her in the first place isn’t just that he might have been gay. I mean, marriage is a huge commitment. He was thinking about her in terms of him being a werewolf and the idea of them having children.

Eric: It’s… Right.

Laura: So, it’s not just the consideration that he might have been gay, there’s a whole lot more to consider there…

Eric: Right.

Laura: I mean, I’m not ruling it out, but I’m just saying, that’s not it.

Eric: No, but even when Tonks said, well, look at Bill. Fleur still loves him even though he’s him, even though he has werewolf cuts, Remus went silent. He was like, “Yeah, well, you know?”; sort of beating around the bush. That’s just what I felt like. I felt like if Jo was going to out somebody it would be Remus. I have to be honest.

Micah: I think his insecurities stemmed from the fact that he was shunned by society for his entire life. I don’t think it has anything to do with – yeah, we all had talked about possibly doing a show on that, but I mean, I just see the relationship between Lupin and Sirius as being friends. I mean, they were close friends. You can’t overanalyze every group of characters…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: No, you’re right.

Micah: …that are close friends in the series.

Ben: And, do you realize that the majority of the people shipping Lupin and Sirius, I hate to say it, but I heard a lot of just older women.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: It’s true.

Eric: No, it’s true.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: It’s absolutely true.

Laura: It’s true.

Ben: It was just a lot of older women in their 40s who were saying, “Yeah, these two were gay together.” It’s whatever. They’re really close friends. Could they have possibly had sexual relations in the past? Yeah, but does that change the fact that Lupin’s a werewolf? Does it affect the plot, does it affect the storyline?

Eric: And even more…

Ben: Is sexuality really even a part of the series to begin with?

Eric: Yeah. Yeah, they don’t have to be, they’re both good role models to Harry. In the third book they’re my two favorite characters. I mean…

Dumbledore as a Role Model

Ben: Wouldn’t you agree, wouldn’t you guys agree that Dumbledore is still a good role model, 100%?

Laura: Yes, absolutely.

Ben: Like, despite the fact, just because someone – it just baffles me that just because someone, like I said before, just because of the set of genitals that you like that means that it changes who you are as a person. You know? There are more important qualities like…

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: …treating people right, being tolerant of others, you know, accepting people for who they are.

Eric: Yeah. Uh huh.

Ben: You know? Those things don’t matter, but the fact that you like other guys, you know, huge deal.

Laura: And the thing about it is, what I find more important than any – whenever I consider Dumbledore’s love life, what bothers me is that he loved Grindelwald as a person and Grindelwald turned out to be just…

Eric: Quite evil.

Laura: Yes. It’s not that he had a penis; it’s that he was evil. [laughs] That has nothing to do with it, I just – what people, if people are going to question Dumbledore’s relationship or his love of Grindelwald, they should be questioning why he loved somebody who was clearly very flawed, not why that person happened to be of the same gender.

Eric: Right. It’s a security – it’s like an insecurity issue with Dumbledore, I think.

Laura: Yeah, I think so too, but I just…

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: It just ticks me off.

Eric: Yeah, I know.

Fan Response: It Doesn’t Matter

Andrew: Well, let’s get to some fan feedback now because we’ve been getting quite a few e-mails about this. Luckily all the ones I’ve found are positive, although I was trying to find a negative one so we could debate it, but that one Ben brought up was just perfect. First one comes from Callista, 15, of Temple City, California.

At first the news/rumors about Dumbledore’s sexual orientation seemed like a joke.

I don’t know what rumors she’s talking about.

It was kind of unbelievable seeing as that would sound like a joke someone would crack or say just to say what kind of a reaction they would get. I have nothing against homosexuality. I don’t believe in it, but I totally respect it. After some thought I started to feel what Jo said about Dumbledore being gay doesn’t really matter. To some maybe, but it doesn’t change what kind of person Dumbledore was, what he did, and what he was known for. Even though what he believed in is against my beliefs, I still respect and consider him a great person, and so should everyone else.

Good point, Callista.

Laura: Thank you.

Eric: That was very nice.

Andrew: It’s always nice to hear the fan say it, not just us.

Laura: And even from somebody who clearly has views that are different. You know? She flat-out said that it is against her beliefs but she’s not going to hold him to that standard.

Andrew: Because of what she…

Laura: Because of his sexuality. Exactly.

Fan Response: Breaking the Stereotype

Andrew: So, good. Credit to her. Next one, Sarah, 19, from East Lansing, Michigan. She writes:

Hey guys, I just have to send this MuggleMail after JKR’s revelation during the Open Book Tour about Dumbledore being gay.

As a side note, it’s funny Jo called it the Open Book Tour.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Sort of, like, Dumbledore’s being out there, he’s open…

Eric: [Laughs] Being like, whoa! Incredibly open book tour.

Tangent: Ian McKellen

Ben: Hey, Eric, Eric. What’s the name of the guy, Gandalf, Ian what?

Laura: Ian McKellen.

Eric: Sir Ian McKellen is actually, and let’s talk about this for a moment…

Ben: He’s gay. Wouldn’t it have been funny if he would have been casted as Dumbledore originally and then…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: He would have done lots of fun with it. Ian McKellen had, or I’ve heard Sir Ian McKellen described as a princess, by some people. He was just recently in trouble, I think, in Singapore because he asked on live TV where the nearest gay bar was, and it’s illegal to be gay in Singapore. It actually is. So, he’s very tolerant of it and he’s very open about it, and I love Sir Ian McKellen, to be honest. He’s a really good actor, very Shakespearean. I think yes, it would have been funny if he were cast as Dumbledore. But, I mean, obviously the Gandalf, sort of, confusion, and he’s already got that series, so. And Da Vinci, so he probably wouldn’t be up for it.

Back to Fan Response

Andrew: Yeah. Anyway, Sarah goes on to write:

I love that she made the most powerful wizard of all time a homosexual. It breaks the stereotype and makes a powerful statement in that respect. I also do not believe that she made it up on the spot and I do believe it was important information to give fans. Her characters have so much background that we haven’t seen. She has detailed their lives far more than we expect. And if a fan asks a question, like in this case, she should be able to give an honest answer. The books are out; there is nothing more to hide. I figure that you might get a lot of crap e-mails from fans who do not support this revelation saying that it hurts their image of the books or of JKR. I felt the need to show some love and support to our beloved author. Bottom line, Dumbledore will always kick” – excuse my French – ass.

She didn’t say excuse my French.

Eric: See, what is it with Dumbledores and donkeys? What is it, honestly? Because with Aberforth the goats…

Andrew: The goats. They’re sort of an off branch of the animals.

Eric: Oh, Jesus. Okay.

Fan Response: Jo Wanted to be Controversial

Andrew: One more e-mail from Melissa, 13, of New York. She writes:

Earlier today, J.K. Rowling announced…

Yeah, we know.

However, I personally think she should have kept this little secret about Dumbledore to herself. I personally think that she only made this statement to be controversial. I believe she only said this because she wanted to see how people would challenge the books. And already the ‘Harry Potter’ series have been blamed for going against Christianity. I’ve always believed that ‘Harry Potter’ was not going against the Christian religion in anyway. Like the Pope said, “one must look at the morals of something,” and the morals of the ‘Harry Potter’ books are bravery and respect. However, I think Rowling is pushing her luck with the world by announcing that Dumbledore’s gay. What do you think? Keep up the show. Good work.

Micah: Can I respond to this?

Andrew: Well, hold on. Wait. Just one second. There’s a P.S.

I sound really mean and snobby, but I still love J.K. Rowling. I just love her a little tiny less.

Ben: Well, just so you know, though, J.K. Rowling does not have to pay any of that money back just because she announced Dumbledore’s gay.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Ben: She had nothing to lose by doing this. She really didn’t have much to lose.

Andrew: I know.

Ben: I mean, when you have a billion dollars, I mean, it isn’t like she’s going to be risking her livelihood by announcing that.

Eric: [sings] If I had a million dollars, I’d tell you Dumbledore was gay. Oh so gay, with Grindelwald. If I had a million dollars – no.

Laura: Okay.

Eric: Guys, it’s not a publicity stunt, though. And that’s where I disagree, because I really don’t think it was a publicity stunt. This e-mail says, “pushing her luck” sort of thing. I actually think it was a true, honest answer, as this person does say. I think it was a true, honest answer. I mean, I’m shocked it was sort of said, and I thought maybe there should have been some care beforehand or something, but I thought, in general principle, what Micah said, “It was an honest question. Get an honest answer.”

Ben: Yeah, and I agree, because, like I said about the whole money thing and everything, is that she had – like the whole reason to be a publicity stunt would be if she was, you know, hurting for money or if she had some reason that she needed to spark more interest in Harry Potter all of a sudden. And what Jo – she isn’t narcissistic, you know what I mean? She’s not like that. She isn’t thinking, “Oh my gosh! Harry Potter’s about to die now! Now I need to do something to shake everyone up!” That wasn’t what it was about. It was – it was just how – it was just – he – Dumbledore liked another guy, guys.

[Andrew gives sarcastic gasp]

Ben: Get over it.

Laura: Oh no! The world is coming to an end!

Ben: Give me a butterbeer.

Eric: You could take it further, Ben, and you could say, well – no, listen okay? Dumbledore at the time was 16 and Jo has said to emotionally sensitive readers, it was an infatuation. Now, there are sort of books that – I mean, that aspect of the book might speak to teenagers. And a lot of people – we’ve gotten e-mails that said, “I’m really liberated because J.K.R. said that.” It encouraged some guy to come out at the show. And you know, things like that, like those are the good aspects of this and I think that that sort of relates to teenagers or teenagers in general. I’m not saying Dumbledore wasn’t gay the rest of his life. I’m saying that certain ambiguities and certain choices that you make in your – these are all things that affect teenagers. Crushes, you know, just in general, affect teenagers, and I think it’s really interesting that she puts Dumbledore, someone who we respect, into that kind of situation and show that Dumbledore was a teenager who faced the same problems that lots of us do.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: The one thing I wanted to bring up about this was that – and Ben mentioned this before – when people are constantly referring to it going against Christianity and, you know, I think I missed the point where Christianity is the only religion in this country, and being somebody who’s Jewish, and when I constantly see these comparisons being made, I just don’t understand why they think that there is sort of this hierarchy where they’re at the top.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, and I mean, speaking as somebody who doesn’t practice an organized religion, I feel the same way. And last time I checked, Harry Potter wasn’t written to go for Christianity in the first place. Not saying that she’s writing it against it.

Eric: No, it’s not.

Laura: But it’s not a book based on Christianity, so I don’t see why these people act like it should be. [laughs]

The Bible, Homosexuality and Andy’s Article

Andrew: Here’s what I hate the most, and it’s going a little off topic. A lot of people, their big thing is [in a hushed voice], “Oh, well it’s against it in the Bible. Homosexuality is against the Bible. You can’t go to bed with another man.”

Laura: Okay, oh man. Here we go.

Andrew: Well, there are a few things that Andy brought up in his article and I’ve also seen before. Anyone consulting a medium is to be stoned to death. Okay, that’s kind of weird. It is forbidden to cut your hair or to wear clothing out of more than one fabric. Everyone should be killed.

Laura: So, guys, if you want to quote Leviticus, go right ahead. But then, walk outside and prepare to be stoned.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: It is, however, perfectly acceptable to sell your children into slavery, should you choose to do so. And another one I saw on a T.V. show was that it’s forbidden to eat fish. You can’t eat fish.

Eric: You can’t eat fish?

Laura: So many outrageous things. Like there was something that I read about – if a man dies, his wife becomes property of his brother?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: Really? Okay. We don’t do that anymore. So…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Too bad.

Andrew: We’re not denouncing the Bible right now. Let’s say that.

Laura: No, what we’re saying is that it’s a text – it is definitely a text of its time and this is not…

Eric: Wait. By that you’re calling it out-dated.

Laura: Yes! [laughs] In a sense I am because this…

Andrew: It sort of is.

Laura: These are not biblical times. You can’t sit here and pick and choose things out of the Bible that you want to apply…

Eric: Right, I completely agree.

Laura: …to issues you disagree with.

Eric: You either agree with it all, or you don’t. And someone who does, prepare to be stoned.

Laura: Yeah. This isn’t a cafeteria. You can’t pick and choose…

Ben: I don’t mind being stoned.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Cut that out. Don’t put that in.

Eric: “I don’t mind being stoned.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: No, I mean honestly. Micah’s right. Christianity is not the only religion. You cannot succeed on Broadway if you don’t have any Jews.

Micah: [laughs] What?

Eric: None of you get the reference. Everybody – every single one…

Andrew: Do you want to win the “Most Cut Out of the Show” award this week?

Eric: Why? What else have I said, honestly?

Andrew: Penis…a lot of stuff.

Eric: No, Laura said penis. Okay?

Laura: Yeah, I said penis.

Eric: She said penis.

Andrew: Okay, but Eric said something – I don’t know. Whatever. So yeah, it’s “BS,” you know? If we were considering making this an explicit – well I was [laughs] considering making it an explicit episode, because there’s just so much more I personally want to say about it, because it just really ticks me off when some people are saying some stuff, you know, about Dumbledore, just homosexuality in general. It’s very, very frustrating.

Laura: We should start a whole separate podcast.

Eric: People are ignorant. If somebody could eloquently talk to you about why it’s wrong, then we’d have them on, you know? Then we’d talk about it, but…

Andrew: You know, I was just thinking, I almost want to say, we invite someone who’s completely against it to come on the show and have a little debate. However, that could get a little nasty.

Eric: No, that would definitely get very nasty, very fast.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: So, back to Melissa’s e-mail. Yeah, I don’t – it doesn’t make sense how you could see J.K. Rowling any less. If it’s a fact, it’s a fact. It’s her character, she wrote him the way she wanted him to be written. If you think you have a better idea, go out and write your own book series. However, I don’t think it’s going to be as popular. So…

Thank Yous

Andrew: Okay, now is a good time to thank the people who did get Laura, Micah, and I in. First and foremost, I would like to thank Lucas, who was on the live show, our 12-hour live podcast a few weeks ago, and I think I was sort of bugging him for a ticket. He got me in, I took his sister’s ticket, so thanks to him a lot. Shout out to Lucas!

Eric: Thanks to his sister, as well.

Andrew: Laura and Micah?

Laura: I want to thank Laura Coratie, I believe – I think that’s how you say your last name, Laura, but she was really, really generous about – she e-mailed me like, literally, right after she got the ticket and offered it to me. And we spent some time on the phone talking about how excited we were and then we met up with her and we hung out with her for a few hours, too. She came by our hotel and we all went out to dinner together, and she was really, really nice.

Andrew: We bought her pizza!

Laura: Yes.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: You give us a ticket…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: …we buy you pizza.

Eric: God, I want pizza.

Laura: And she was really great, so thank you again, Laura, like, I…

Andrew: Unless your name is Lucas.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: It was really great to get it.

Micah: And I would like to thank Mariah Wilson-Barrone. She actually came all the way from New Mexico to be there, and I just lucked out, because apparently she was with two other people who had a child, and they didn’t know if the child was going to be able to sit on the parent’s lap, which ended up happening, and that freed up my ticket. So, thank you to Mariah.

Andrew: We called Micah like 15 minutes before the event actually started…

Micah: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: …and I was like, “Micah, run down here!” And he ran. When he came, he was out of breath. He was like, “Dude, you shouldn’t have done that to me.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: But, Micah, you’re in shape. You work out. Come on, man.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: You go to the gym.

Micah: I made it there.

Andrew: Yeah, you did make it there just on time. Just on time. So, yeah, okay.

Meeting Jo

Andrew: Now let’s talk about when we actually got to meet Jo. Let’s see, who went up first? Laura went up first?

Laura: No, Micah did.

Micah: I did.

Andrew: Oh, Micah did.

Laura: Micah was before me.

Micah: I did.

Andrew: Micah, how’d it go?

Micah: It was good. It was good. It was a quick “hello,” and I – I don’t know. Maybe there was a connection there, I’m not saying anything, but…

Andrew: [laughs] What, you’re not saying anything?

Micah: Yes.

Andrew: That’s very suggestive.

Micah: There was a connection, you know. We had that little site update thing going on.

Andrew: Right, right, right.

Micah: No, but it was cool. It was definitely cool and – said, “hello,” she said, “hello,” and not as exciting as the two of you, but…

Laura: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Micah: Well, at least Andrew – Andrew’s was coolest, but…

Andrew: [laughs] Thank you.

Laura: The thing that’s really disappointing about it is, you know, you think, you know, Eric, you’re sitting here saying, “You met J.K.R., you met J.K.R.,” and it’s like, I stood in front of her for ten seconds and we exchanged about five words.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: And I had a MuggleNet shirt, and as they took my book from me and started to hand it to her, I slid it on the table and she looked up at me while she was signing someone else’s book, so I felt kind of bad for them, and I was like, “Hi, I’m Laura from MuggleNet and we just wanted you to
have this shirt on behalf of our staff.” And I just kind of babbled something about how we love her or whatever, and she was like, “Oh, cool, thank you so much!” And she like, looked, you know, right up at me and she smiled really big and then she signed my book and then the Scholastic people shoved me away, and they gave me another signed copy on accident, and then they took it away from me when they realized what they did, so I was very disappointed.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Oh, god.

Andrew: So then I’m going up. A few rows later, I’m going up, and I got my man Lucas behind me, and I’m like, “Lucas, I can’t do this, man. I can’t say anything to her. I’m just – I’m going to lose it. I’m going to
screw it up.” And he’s like, “No, do it. You have to do it. You have to do it.” So, I got inspired to do it and just say that I’m from MuggleNet, that’s all I was really whining about. And I’m about to go up, and this kid a few spots ahead of me gives her a high five, and I’m thinking, now that would be a cool story. I could say I said “hello”, I could say I gave her a handshake, or I can say I gave Jo a high five.

[Eric laughs]

Ben: You should’ve gave her a high ten.

Andrew: A high ten. [laughs]

Ben: If you really wanted to go for it all.

Andrew: Double the – yeah, why didn’t I do that? Damn it.

Ben: Dude, yeah, yeah. You screwed it up.

Andrew: I fail.

Ben: Don’t even finish the story, now.

Andrew: You’re right. Well, no, I have to finish the story. She had one hand always signing stuff anyway, so I was like, “Jo!” I came up to her and I said, “I’m Andrew from MuggleNet.” She gave me like a silent, like, “Ahhh.” Like, I’ll illustrate it for – I’ll make a sound for podcasting purposes. And I was like, “Jo, can I have a high five?” And she keeps staring at me, while she’s finishing signing, you know, this book. Book number, like, 1,800. And then finally, she comes up, and it’s like, it’slike slow motion, it’s like [sings] da da da da do doo…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: And like, she did it slow, because, you know, she’s high-fiving the Andrew Sims. It’s a big moment for her. So she’s coming up for the big high five, you know?

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: And then boom, we made contact, and I was like, “Yeah, Jo, you rock!” And then I went off and was happy. [sighs] So, that was that. Over all, great event. [laughs] We’re all very happy we went.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: And – wow, I guess we’re all now winded out.

Laura: And I’m fearing for the life of my copy of the book [laughs], here at school.

Eric: Laura…

Andrew: Okay, so…

Eric: …what’s your dorm number again? [laughs]

Laura: What?

Eric: What’s your dorm number?

Laura: Uhhh, no.

Eric: How good’s…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: How good’s campus security, Laura?

[Ben laughs]

HUH!? E-mails of the Week

Andrew: Okay, now it’s time for just a quick two Huh?! E-mails of the Week. My voice is dead, so I can’t do it to the full potential. Two of them – as everyone knows, we didn’t have a show last weekend because our voices were gone. We were all sick and sort of busy in New York City. So this first e-mail comes from Josh, 14, of Florida. He writes:


He quotes what I said on the blog.

Monday, 7 PM, Laura calls and tells me her voice is gone. That’s what I put on the blog. He says, Laura calls you and tells you her voice is gone. Sounds like a load of crap to me, but you are entitled to say what you like.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: Explain to me how exactly she calls and tells you her voice
is gone when her voice is, well, gone.

[Laura and Ben laugh]

Andrew: Sorry, didn’t mean to come off rude or anything. Don’t cry.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: That is funny, though.

Laura: Wait, what?

Ben: Because I used to work in an office, and I did a lot of tech stuff, and I had people e-mail me and tell me their e-mail wasn’t working.

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Laura: Well…

Ben: You know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: So, it’s the same thing.

Eric: Same deal. I used to work for my school district and lots of people would come in, but they had to do a guest account and stuff. That’s how they did it, but yeah.

Laura: Wait, so what is this Monday 7 PM…

Andrew: That’s what I wrote on the MuggleCast blog. I had a schedule of events.

Laura: Oh okay.

Andrew: Okay, so listen, Josh, I mean, if you lose your voice, you still have a raspy voice. You don’t completely lose it. We didn’t mean literally her voice jumped out of her throat.

Laura: No, and Andrew and I are both sitting there and our voices are cracking like we’re 13-year-old boys.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Laura: I mean that’s what we sounded like. It was really bad.

Andrew: Yeah. So, sorry, Josh. Sorry. Sorry, dude.

Eric: It’s not like Ursula came up and got Laura to sing and then, you know, took her voice.

Andrew: Yeah. You know what, Josh? You caught us. You caught us. We just wanted to annoy you. We knew you would catch us.

Laura: We were thinking, “I want to annoy Josh from Florida. I’m going to lose my voice just for him.”

Andrew: Oh, good. Okay so next Huh?! E-mail of The Week comes from Miranda, 19, of South Dakota:

Now that we know that Dumbledore is gay, how do you think this will
affect the last two movies? In the book, he’s never portrayed as being flamboyant, but I’m afraid now the movie people (specific, I know) will try to portray his character as a stereotypical gay person.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Not that I’m against gays at all, but I’m afraid that it will ruin the character of Dumbledore by trying to bring in characteristics about him that aren’t in the books just because of this revelation. What do you guys think?

Laura: Dumbledore not flamboyant?

Eric: Have you guys seen Stardust?

Laura: Are you kidding me? That man is like the definition of flamboyant.

Eric: Yeah. Just not necessarily tied to gay.

Laura: No, no, no.

Micah: Well, you know, I’ve got the answer.

Andrew: Well, we do have a lot of respect for our listeners, but, listen Warner Bros isn’t going to change the movies just because of this fact. They’re not going to do anything.

Micah: Even if they did, you wouldn’t be able to tell because Michael Gambon can’t act, so… [laughs]

Show Close

Andrew: [laughs] Right. I think that just about does it for today’s show. This was another very long show but I guess it makes up for us not being around last week because we did “lose our voices.”

Laura: I really did!

Andrew: Which is really strange, Laura, Micah, and I. All three of us. I guess we all caught the same thing, whatever weird thing that was.

Eric: Were you guys kissing again? Snogging in the backroom?

Andrew: There was a little of that. Not going to lie.

Eric: Have you guys all seen the Caption Contest, by the way?

Andrew: Yes, we have. Eric, re-did the entire Caption Contest. Go to for more details.

Eric: Sweet.

Andrew: I think that does wrap up the show for today. We need to give you some contact information, though, just in case you have some rebuttals or any other problems with us. Or maybe you love us so much, you just want to give us some love. Laura what is the P.O. Box if people want to reach us that way?

Laura: It’s P.O. Box 3151

Cumming, Georgia

Andrew: Laura, you told us the other day your mom reported that a glass pickle came in the mail?

Laura: It did and I can’t remember the name of the girl who sent it. I will get that, though and report to you next week. But yeah, she did send a glass pickle. So…

Andrew: Thank you. Can I have it?

Laura: Yeah! Sure. [laughs]

Andrew: There are also other numerous ways to contact us. Of course, you can call us via the MuggleCast hotline. If you’re in the United States, you can dial 1-218-20-MAGIC. That’s 1-218-206-2442. If you’re in the United Kingdom, you can also dial 0-208-144-0677 and if you’re in Australia, you can dial 028-0035-668. You can also Skype the username MuggleCast. Just go to to download the program for free and give us a call that way. Just remember no matter which way you call us, to keep your message under 60 seconds and try to eliminate as much background noise as possible. Maybe we’ll try to get to some voicemails next week about the whole Dumbledore being gay topic. I’m sure lots of you have some responses whether they are negative to ours or good to ours. Just keep in mind no matter how many calls we get with people saying, “No, you guys are wrong, Dumbledore being gay is wrong,” you’re always going to get shutdown by us no matter what you say.

There is also a handy feedback form on, or you can contact us with your questions, rebuttals, comments, etc.

And do not forget our community outlets. We have the MuggleCast MySpace,
the Facebook, YouTube group, Frappr group, Last.FM group, and fanlisting. The fanlisting does exist but some new forums are coming soon. Of course all of this information is over at

Eric: dot com.

Andrew: Hey, don’t forget MuggleCast ringtones! Okay that is it. I need a drink.

Laura: Oh, wow.

Eric: Hey, guys, if you’re in Australia, thank you for coming out toe MuggleCast Down Under, it was freaking awesome, and if you have any questions, stuff about shirts, that sort of thing, and if you want to tell us how much you loved the event, mugglecastoz at gmail dot com. MuggleCast-O-Z.

Andrew: We apologize for taking two weeks off, but we won’t do that again. Sometimes we just get really busy, especially with school going on now, but we are going to work the kinks out.

[Show music begins]

Andrew: And we’ll get some live shows going on soon. I have the mixer set up but there are still a couple kinks I need to work out and I need to buy a couple of little small things. Laura, I’ll be seeing you tomorrow.

Laura: Yes, we’re getting together for the release of Leopard. It’s very exciting!

Eric: What’s Leopard?

Andrew: Heck yes! Leopard’s the new OS 10 operating system for Macintosh.

Laura: And where are we going, Andrew?

Eric: Oh, I thought it was a show when I read the e-mail.

Andrew: We’re going to…

Andrew and Laura: [singing] Baltimore!

Andrew: [singing] Every day’s like an open door!

Eric: Oh, geez.

Andrew: I’ve seen Hairspray four times now.

Laura: I’ve only seen it once.

Eric: What’s the title of MuggleCast this week going to be?

Andrew: Dumbledore’s Gay.

Eric: No, that can’t be the title.

Laura: Dumbledore Takes It.

Andrew: Oh, Laura, we’re still live.

Eric: People are – or Andrew’s quote. Guys Have Holes Too.

Micah: What?

Andrew: What?

Eric: That was Andrew’s quote. He said that.

Micah: What? You cut off.

Andrew: You broke up.

Eric: Oh. Guys Have Holes Too.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Should I cut that or should that stay in?

Eric: Yeah you should – keep it. Keep it, keep it.

Micah: Ehhh…

Laura: I thought it was hilarious. This show is going to offend so many people anyway.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, you know, I’ll put a disclaimer at the beginning of the show.

Eric: Just call it “Offensive Content.”

Andrew: We thank you all for listening, we hope nobody was too offended and we were getting off topic a little bit. We’ll see everyone next week for Episode 118 for MuggleCast. Once again, I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: Bye-bye!

Laura: Bye!


[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: That’s really all the news is about.

Laura: I know. All it’s going to be is Micah going, “Dumbledore is gay.”

Andrew: “Back to you.”

[Laura laughs]