Transcript #211

MuggleCast 211 Transcript

Show Intro

[Intro music begins]

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[“Hedwig’s Theme” plays]

David Heyman: Hello, this is David Heyman and I’m the producer of the Harry Potter films, and this is MuggleCast.

[Show music begins]

Micah: Because Dumbledore is just one reckless educator, this is MuggleCast Episode 211 for October the 17th, 2010.

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Welcome everyone to MuggleCast Episode 211. It’s Micah, Jamie, Nick, and I this week. Two English accents on the show.

Jamie: Yeah! We’re going to outrank you soon. We’re going to take over this show.

Andrew: Well, hopefully we can decipher the difference between your two voices.

Jamie: You should be able to, Andrew, you should be able to. You should know what I sound like after all this time.

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: 211 Episodes!

Andrew: I do, but it’s still – you still both have that accent, and it still throws me off.

Jamie: Wait. Sorry, sorry, sorry. 211 Episodes and some IRL time, as all the kids are saying now.

Andrew: [laughs] Oh, you mean “in real life”?

Jamie: Yeah, and you don’t even know who I – that’s just charming. That is excellent.

Andrew: I do, I do. It’s just – I can kind of tell – Nick, no offense but your voice is just a bit higher than Jamie’s, so…

Nick: Ouch.

Andrew: …I can decipher it that way.

Jamie: That’s because he’s two years younger though. Give him two years, and he’ll [drops voice down lower] probably be speaking like this.

[Andrew laughs]

Nick: I’m going to try that for the remainder of this Episode.

Jamie: Okay, go, see if you can pull it off.

Micah: Jamie, Jamie, I don’t have to do the show anymore because you can do my voice too.

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, yeah, I’ll do yours. There you go, it’ll just be a one-man show. Andrew, you’re going to have to find a new job.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Oh, no! Well no, we need everyone for the show this week because there is lots of news to talk about, and of course we have Chapter-by-Chapter, and a fun Dueling Club segment, so let’s get to it! I’m Andrew Sims.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Nick: And I’m Nick Myers.

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Micah, we’re just a month away from Deathly Hallows: Part 1 now, so lots of news to talk about.

Jamie: And it’s come up so quickly.

Micah: I know. I was going to say, it’s amazing that it’s only 30 days away. It’s just – it seems like only yesterday Eric and Emerson were going to the theatre to see…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: …the screening.

Jamie: What actually was the story behind that? Because I read it and it read to me like, “I was walking past a building and suddenly someone came out and said ‘Do you want to see the new Harry Potter film?’ And I said yes. And I went in and saw it.”

Andrew: [laughs] Well, that’s…

Jamie: And to me that just didn’t sound real.

Andrew: Well, it is very odd that – of course it would be Emerson that got selected for this, but that’s the truth. This is where they go to do these screenings – these test screenings in Chicago. And Emerson was already going to see a movie and somebody there said “would you like to see a movie?” They didn’t say it was Harry Potter. But Emerson sort of guessed that it was Harry Potter since it was getting close to the release and they always do the test screenings in Chicago for whatever reason.

Jamie: Or did he just say that he guessed it after he saw it?

Andrew: I don’t know…

Jamie: Because then he’d sound cool.

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Andrew: No, he guessed before and he had emailed me, he was like, “I think it’s going to happen tomorrow.”

Jamie: Oh, right. Cool.

Andrew: Yeah, so…

Jamie: Nice.

News: Deathly Hallows PG-13 Rating

Andrew: So what’s going on in the news?

Micah: Well, Deathly Hallows finally got a rating here in the United States. The MPAA gave it a PG-13 rating. I don’t think there’s really too much of a surprise there.

Andrew: We – it was a bit worrisome because with Half-Blood Prince it was rated PG. So question was would they rate Part 1 PG-13? And they did.

Micah: Well, when you…

Andrew: It’s not that big of a deal because it doesn’t impact…

Micah: When you start killing people I think you have to rate it PG-13. And Dumbledore’s death, like I said on the last Episode, it kind of looked like he was just floating.

Jamie: But don’t you think it’s weird though?

Micah: It wasn’t very dramatic. What’s that?

Jamie: Don’t you think it’s weird that if you start – if you create a film and people die you have to rate it PG-13? Whereas in life people die, so it’s just a reflection of what happens in everyday life, yet you don’t need a PG-13 rating to live?

Andrew: Well, didn’t you see the – a few years ago they decided to rate life PG-13. So…

Jamie: Life?!

Andrew: Yeah. Like, life.

Jamie: No…

Andrew: Life…

Jamie: Oh, you…

Andrew: The world.

Jamie: Like actual life? Oh…

Andrew: Yeah! [laughs]

Jamie: Right! I thought…

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: I thought I was really clever there and that had gone way over your head, but apparently…

Andrew: [laughs] No.

Jamie: …it went way over my head instead!

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Micah: Jamie, that’s an excellent point, though. Because they didn’t rate The Lion King PG-13.

Jamie: No, and that was really sad, so…

Andrew: That was sad.

Micah: Not to spoil the film for people. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah. Well, you only said it was sad. Or, like Up. I haven’t seen Up, but quite a grown man in my office confided in me that he cried! [laughs] So…

Andrew: [laughs] Confided! “I have a deep secret to tell you. I cried during Up.”

Jamie: Did you – what, did you as well?

Andrew: No, I’m…

Jamie: Oh, you were paraphrasing him.

Andrew: It was – the beginning was very sad…

Jamie: Our chemistry is gone Andrew.

[Jamie and Andrew laugh]

Andrew: The problem with the MPAA is that it’s a bunch of parents just rating the films. So I don’t think…

Jamie: Oh, really?

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t think there are many standards. It’s sort of just like what they feel. It’s very – there’s a whole documentary on it called, This Film Is Not Yet Rated, I think.

Jamie: That’s weird – it’s…

Andrew: And…

Jamie: It’s parents doing it.

Andrew: It tries to track down people in the MPAA and they’re very secretive about it. It’s – it was a pretty interesting documentary.

Jamie: That’s pretty stupid.

Andrew: So – yeah, it’s all over the place.

Micah: And the film hasn’t been rated in…

Andrew: What else has been going on?

Micah: …the U.K. yet, either, right? But we would…

Andrew: No.

Micah: …expect that it would receive, what, Nick? A 12-A you said?

Nick: A 12-A again, yeah.

Andrew: That’s the PG-13 equivalent here.

Micah: But Half-Blood Prince also got a 12-A in the U.K. which, like you said, Andrew, is a PG-13 equivalent. But it was rated PG here in the United States, so it seems like there’s no consistency.

Nick: We have a – strict guidelines here, so if it has dark, dark horror, threatening and deaths and stuff, it would get the 12-A rating. So – whereas in America they just have the parents doing it. [unintelligible]

Jamie: How weird is that? Nick, can you imagine if in The U.K. they said, “Oh, we’re going to get the parents just to rate something”? There’d be…

Nick: That’d be the Daily Mail readers.

Jamie: …an uproar! The Daily Mail readers, yeah! [laughs] God, that would be insane! I can’t believe – oh you just do things weird in America.

News: Deathly Hallows: Part 1 not in 3D

Micah: Yeah we do. Well, the other big news about Deathly Hallows is that Part 1 will not be available in 3D and W.B. released a statement a couple of weeks ago saying that, they weren’t able to finish everything from a technical stand point and I think this is a good thing. I mean, why put a movie out that is not going to meet fan needs if it’s not complete and it’s going to look like crap.

Nick: It shows their commitment to quality.

Jamie: Yeah, it does and also we don’t have one more film where it’s in 3D and you get there and the first 20 seconds are in 3D and the last 2 minutes and then you think, “Well, that’s not really a 3D film, is it?” That’s just…

Andrew: Yeah, I have to admit that was – the way the marketed Half-Blood Prince was… [unintelligible]

Jamie: That it was all in 3D, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. They didn’t say just the first 5-10 minutes. However Part 1 was going to be – I’m pretty sure the plan for Part 1 and now Part 2 is that the entire film’s 3D which you’ve seen in quite a few films recently. I mean, Avatar and pretty much every film now has a 3D version. But good on W.B. for deciding that the quality just wasn’t there and they couldn’t get it done in time.

Listener Tweets

Micah: But we wanted to read a couple of tweets that people sent along as to how they felt about this, about the film not being available in 3D. So, Andrew, did you want to read some of them?

Andrew: Yeah, the first one’s from ‘KirpalJutla’ says:

“Bit disappointing that ‘DH Part 1’ isn’t going to be in 3D but at least they didn’t move the movie back six months again for it.”

That’s very true. Can you imagine if it was their fault for the delay and then they just decided to push it back? [laughs] ‘ItsLaurenYvonne’ says:

“I think it’s great because I don’t have the option to waste money to see if it’s any good. We all know 3D is cool but crap.”

Jamie: I think that’s a great slogan if you see, “Harry Potter coming soon in 3D, cool but crap!”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: ‘Jessicayeto’ says:

“I’m disappointed it’s not in 3D. I was really looking forward to it. I don’t get why some people are so happy either.”

‘sheenabeans2’ says:

“I was personally excited for the movie in 3D but I was going to watch it in 2D. Either choice is just losing them money.”

Finally ‘z00here’ says:

“Kind of happy about no 3D. When films are shot in 2D but are 3D-ized in post production, 3D is subpar. See ‘Alice in Wonderland’.”.

Nick: That is so true.

Andrew: What if they’re not happy with Part 2? Because now Part 2 has to be really good, because they’re like, “Yeah, Part 1 we did you guys a favor. We didn’t show you it because it was so bad.”

Micah: Yeah. Is there a potential though for them to re-release the movie in 3D?

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Micah: Sometime early next year?

Andrew: Part 1, and put in in theaters, as 3D. I bet they would do that right before the release of Part 2.

Nick: I bet, if it would make up the thirty million they’ve invested in it already. And it would build the hype up.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. And actually, it would be really cool to see Part 1 and Part 2 back-to-back in a theater.

Jamie: I’m sure they will do that.

Micah: Yeah.

Jamie: They are going to do that, aren’t they, and just run them together completely.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Jamie: I don’t see why they wouldn’t.

News: Promotional Posters

Micah: Well, Jamie, you mentioned earlier that there was a lot of promotional posters you saw when you were going to the movie theater.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: And I’m not sure that all of these were there, in your theater, but there’s been quite a few. Have there been any that have stood out to anybody?

Jamie: I have to say that, this year, I thought they’ve been a bit poor. The ones I’ve seen tend to just have “HP7” on a backdrop of Hogwarts, and that’s about it. Perhaps my movie theater’s just crap. [laughs] But…

Andrew: [laughs] Well, the recent ones – MuggleNet was able to release two exclusively – which was really cool – and they were posters of Snape and Voldemort, and they have Hogwarts castle in the background. Those were nice. And then, we’ve been getting these beautiful profile shots of all the main characters. And we got Dobby, Harry, Ron, Hermione…

Jamie: Nice.

Andrew: …Snape, Bellatrix, Greyback – who else? A couple others too. And they’re beautiful, because they’re close-up shots, and you can see every little pore on their face. [laughs]

Jamie: So, proper HD, yeah.

Micah: I was going to say though, the Dobby one I don’t think is good from a promotional standpoint, because nobody knows who he is. The last film he was in was Chamber of Secrets. He’s been absent.

Jamie: Yeah, that’s a fair point. I guess they’re just trying to cover all characters.

Micah: Yeah. It was like using Fenrir Greyback for Half-Blood Prince. Nobody knows who he is, so why are you promoting that?

Andrew: Yeah, I agree with that.

Micah: And I thought the “Seven Potters” one is terrible.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I think that one leaked a little too early, before it was complete. I don’t think this is the finished product. We posted it on MuggleNet a couple of days ago. It’s a very wide banner showing Harry – the Seven Potters, on one side…

Jamie: Oh yeah, that’s awful.

Micah: It looks like it’s from the video game.

Nick: The slogan, with “trust no one,” did anybody else think that was really, really weak?

Jamie: It’s a bit cheesy as well, yeah, “trust no one.”

Nick: It’s so overused.

Jamie: This one looks like my grandma photoshopped it. It’s terrible.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: She can’t even…

Micah: I think I see her there.

[Andrew and Nick laugh]

Jamie: What, she wanted her two minutes of fame?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: No, her finger actually came in front of the lens if you look at the bottom.

Andrew: Yeah, I think it’s just incomplete. I don’t think you’ll see that one in movie theaters.

Jamie: Yeah, it’s not very good.

Andrew: Because, you know how they usually have those really wide banners, and they’re cool, but this one is just odd. So yeah, it’s nice to see all the posters, and I’m sure soon you will see them all in the movie theater. Right now the one I think that’s in all theaters is the one of the burning castle.

Jamie: Wait – in that poster have you seen how Voldemort’s holding his wand? He’s holding it between his two – like top two fingers.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: That looks absolutely ridiculous. It’s like a Roman Centurian holding a sword and putting it between his knees. That’s stupid.

Andrew: It’s not good.

Jamie: That looks terrible.

Andrew: I have a feeling it’s just not finished. Yeah.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: What else is going on in the news?

News: Trailer for Part 1 Game

Micah: Well we talked a little bit about the video game when I said that poster looks like that’s where it came from. But EA actually released a trailer earlier this week from the Part 1 video game, and Nick, I know you had a chance to go to EA and experience the game for yourself, but I think this game finally looks like the one we’ve been waiting for. Just from the action itself.

Nick: Yeah, they’ve gone about their approach completely differently on this game. The content has allowed them to open up what they do with it and they’ve brought a whole new game engine to harness the high definition controls.

Jamie: That’s cool. That’s very cool.

Nick: And there’s now millions more pixels in the characters. They can really focus on getting the stubble on Harry’s face to really shine through, and they’ve gone about it…

Jamie: What tasks do they do?

Nick: …It’s much more action oriented. There are going to be tasks. I’m not sure how much I’m allowed to say, but there’s an element of, when you’re in the campsite, you’ve got to go around and collect bits to make potions to heal yourself, or to protect the campsite. There are – and apparently there’s some sort of goblin merchant you’ll be trading objects with, and there are, then, sort of tasks, but obviously there’s not going to be the Hogwarts crest style thing there used to be.

Jamie: Oh, yeah. Cool.

Nick: But yeah, it’s definitely shaping up to be a much better game, more action oriented. Yeah, it should be good. A lot of people are criticizing the graphics.

Andrew: I was just going to say, I think they look incredible in this trailer.

Nick: I really like them, too. I think they look really good.

Andrew: They look very lifelike. The emotion that you see on the faces, it’s very well-animated, and Hermione’s hair, and Bellatrix’s hair, it moves naturally.

Nick: They’ve even gone and done – does anyone watch Lie to Me? It’s a TV show, and it’s based on micro-expressions, and there’s something called the Facial Action Coding System, which picks up really minute details in the face. And they’re now able to animate twenty different places on the character’s face at once.

Jamie: Oh, that’s insane!

Nick: So the level of detail in the animation is now so good.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, it looks great.

Micah: And I’ve been the biggest critic, too, of these games in the past, and I think this one looks better than anything that’s gone before.

Andrew: Oh, Micah, come on! You’ve learned this lesson before.

Micah: Well, look, when I get it and I play it, and if I don’t like it, I’ll retract my statement. I’ll admit that I was wrong.

[Andrew and Nick laugh]

Micah: But it does, it looks better, there’s more action. You get those shots of them fighting in the streets of London, they’re fighting in the Ministry, they’re running from the Snatchers in the forest. And they’re facing all these creatures which I guess they’ve added in even though they have nothing to do with the storyline. Like Harry running into a dragon in the middle of nowhere. But it looks better. I think this is what people were expecting when they’ve gone out to buy the last two video games.

Andrew: We’ll see!

News: J.K. Rowling’s Interview with Oprah

Micah: We will see. Last show, we had recorded it just before J.K. Rowling’s interview with Oprah Winfrey aired, here in the United States. And I think we all got a chance to see it, or at least clips from it. And to me it was a pretty standard interview. It was more focused on J.K. Rowling’s life, as opposed to Harry Potter. Even though Harry Potter has been such a huge part of her life. And what I mean by that is, there wasn’t a lot of Oprah going into the canon. She didn’t discuss the story itself, so I don’t really think we got much new information on that front. What do you guys think?

Andrew: Yeah, this interview was tailored towards Oprah’s audience, so Oprah couldn’t start asking her questions about Barty Crouch Jr. That would totally turn off Oprah’s audience. So, it was an okay interview. I think one of the more interesting things that Jo said was that she has at least two or three more Potter books in her head and she would never say no to returning, and, of course, that made headlines everywhere: “J.K. Rowling says it’s possible she may write another Harry Potter book!”

Nick: But it’s a big change of stance as well because a few years ago she said seven and that’s it, final, no more, she wouldn’t even consider the possibility…

Andrew: That’s true.

Nick: …at least now it’s an option.

Andrew: That’s true.

Jamie: It’s weird she’s trying to U-turn, though. She always said – it was always, like you say, Nick, it was just – no more, no way, definitely not. It’s kind of weird.

Andrew: Hm. [laughs] There was also a very awkward moment – I haven’t seen the whole interview, admittedly, well, I haven’t seen this part – where J.K. Rowling and Oprah are both talking about how rich they are, [laughs] and everyone I’ve talked to said that it was so awkward…

Jamie: Who’s richer?

Andrew: For the viewers.

Jamie: Who’s richer? It’s got to be Oprah, easily.

Andrew: Really?

Jamie: I thought so, easily!

Andrew: Hmmm.

Jamie: J.K. Rowling’s probably got like…

Andrew: No!

Jamie: 1.5 billion…

Andrew: I don’t know.

Jamie: And Oprah’s probably got like 4 billion. I don’t know, those are figures I just picked out my head, but…

Nick: It was such a funny clip, though, because they’re both just trying to be really humble and say that money hasn’t changed them and everything, and then they talk about how…

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah!

Nick: …they can buy everything.

[Andrew and Nick laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, exactly! That’s so awkward. Very awkward. But…

Jamie: Oh, wow, look at this list…

Andrew: It…

Jamie: Oh, sorry. Wait. By 2008 her yearly income had increased $275,000,000 and…

Andrew: Is that Jo or Oprah?

Jamie: Oprah. And…

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Jamie: According to Forbes, in September 2010 she was worth over 2.7 billion.

Andrew: I wonder what Jo is – if she has this idea to write two or three more books, what place – where do these take place in terms of the Harry Potter timeline? Is it – is it after? Yeah, I mean, they – could they be prequels? Could they be stories with Harry and Ron and Hermione as adults? I wonder where in the timeline…

Jamie: That’d be so weird.

Andrew: …these would take place.

Jamie: It’d be so hard to pull off.

Nick: I would take it would be after because there’s so much she revealed in interviews after the final book went out that a lot of the fans didn’t see, and the characters still evolve in her head. I’d like to think she’d do it after.

Andrew: Yeah, I would think that whatever she wrote would have to have the trio still featured – be the main event, so to speak.

Micah: Yeah. But just some other pieces from this interview – she mentioned that the books wouldn’t be what they were if Jo’s mother hadn’t died. She said: “At least half of Harry’s journey is dealing with death. It’s there on every single page. If she hadn’t died, I don’t think it’s too strong to say that there wouldn’t be Harry Potter.” And…

Nick: I was going to say that things like the Mirror of Erised is a perfect example of that, isn’t it? Where she drew upon that early on in the series to shape the book.

Jamie: Early on, too, Nick.

Micah: Yeah. She actually mentioned that in the interview, didn’t she? Or maybe it was another interview that she brought up the mirror. Or was it Oprah that brought up the mirror? And then she also addressed people like Laura Mallory when she says: “I’m not pushing any belief system. The scene in Deathly Hallows was an illusion to a belief system I was raised on. I think if the evil makes it legitimate for parents to say if this is a little old for my child.” So in there she was just talking about – she’s fully accepting of parents saying, “Look, the evil that’s in these books is a little bit too mature at this point and time for my children. They don’t have to read it.” But using the whole religious argument, I think, she’s not very fond of.

MuggleCast 211 Transcript (continued)

News: Harry Potter Film Wizardry

Andrew: What else is going on in the news?

Micah: So the last bit of news is that there’s this book coming out on the Harry Potter films next week, on October the 19th, called Harry Potter Film Wizardry. And Andrew, you and I have gotten a chance to look at this book, to review this book, and, really, it’s something I think that a lot of Harry Potter fans will really enjoy because it gives you an in-depth look, behind the scenes of the films in great detail.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s really well done, because it has all these new pieces from primarily David Heyman and Stuart Craig about designing the films, and there’s also a couple – well, actually, quite a few new interviews with the cast. It’s just – it’s really full of detail, it’s a very large book. I describe it as an encyclopedia of the films, because they really cover every aspect of the films. Different sets, scenes, characters, actors, I mean, everything is covered in here. And also nice – it’s loaded with pictures and tons of short – I guess short essays, so to speak, about different aspects of the films, from the people who actually did them. So it’s very legit, very nice concept art…

Nick: Shame about the cover though.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, the thing is when you – when everyone first saw this book, and this is what I thought, thinking, “What the heck is this?” The cover is just so basic that you don’t expect that so much detail is going to be inside. But then when you hold it and open it up you see that it’s very large. It’s got quite a few different props, so to speak, that you can take out of the book like there’s an Advanced Potions Making journal and there’s a Marauder’s Map. There’s a proclamation, one of Umbridge’s Educational Decrees. So it’s – you say this about a lot of things, but it’s the perfect Christmas gift. [laughs] The perfect holiday gift. So definitely check it out. It hits bookstores soon, just in time for the release of the film.

Micah: I thought they did a really good job of hitting every character, like characters that you would think were obscure in the films and they took the time to sit down with them and talk with them and like you said, there’s sort of these exclusive interviews. And also what they did with Deathly Hallows: Part 1. They hit all those scenes that you would expect to see in the film – Godric’s Hollow, they revisited the Ministry, the Lovegood house – all these things in such detail, you would think that W.B. would have prevented them from including them. But the wedding is in here and they also give you a look at Part 2, and it’s some pretty cool stuff. So I forget what it retails for. I think it’s around forty dollars but through other places like Amazon you can get it a little cheaper than that.

Andrew: Yeah, it’ll be marked down in bookstores I’m sure too, so.

Nick: Sounds reasonable for what you’re getting.

Andrew: Yeah, actually I think it’s worth the forty. I mean there really is a lot of stuff.

Micah: Yeah it’s hard cover and it’s hundreds of pages, easily. So…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …you are getting value for it.

Andrew: And endless hours of entertainment, just like MuggleCast.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: And this is free! All right.

Micah: Yeah why did we ever do this for free?

Andrew: I don’t know. We should start charging for – I think each episode is worth at least forty dollars.

Jamie: And that’s when our listener count goes [makes diving sound]

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Just for fun we should do an episode and charge for it. [laughs] See how many people buy it. No, I’m kidding. This has not gone to my head, I swear.

Micah: That is all the news.

Chapter-by-Chapter: “Mad-Eye Moody”

Andrew: Good. So let’s get into Chapter-by-Chapter now. This week we’re looking at Goblet of Fire Chapters 13-15. And we will start with Chapter 13. Micah, lead us, please, through the Mad-Eye Moody chapter.

Micah: So, Chapter 13 starts with all the lessons for Harry in his fourth year, and we get a pretty in-depth look at a couple of them. The chapter starts off with the trio headed to Herbology, and Professor Sprout has them collect Bubotuber Pus. Now, my question is, and this is going off the Mandrakes from Chamber of Secrets, does Professor Sprout actually teach, or is she just running an underground market of stuff?

Andrew: I don’t know. She does seem a bit odd.

Nick: There can’t be that much to teach, either, about plants, really. She probably just sits around watering them.

Andrew: You just offended a lot of plant majors.

Nick: Really, cut that out. I don’t want gardener hate.

Andrew: No, I’m sure there’s a – I don’t know the exact name of it, but there are people who study plants.

Micah: Yeah, it just seems like she’s always doing something for somebody else. You know what I mean? So, they need the Mandrakes for this purpose, or they need this pus for another purpose.

Andrew: Oh.

Micah: It never actually seems like there’s a lesson on something.

Jamie: I think she’s just a hands-off teacher though. It’s like if you’re trying to teach a kid how to change a bike tyre, you let them do it and you guide them and stuff. I think she’s just one of those teachers who takes a back seat. I know what you mean, though. It’s not like any of the other magical ones where they get stuck in and show everything. Maybe she’s just different.

Micah: Yeah. Maybe that’s…

Andrew: I actually could use some of this Bubotuber, because I’m reading now that it acts as a treatment for severe acne. I could definitely use that.

Micah: All right. Well, we’ll get you some.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: All right. Well, the second class that Harry, Ron, and Hermione go to is Care of Magical Creatures. Hagrid, of course, teaches this class, and he introduced them to Blast-Ended Skrewts. And what happens here is Draco asks a question. You know, he’s really rude with Hagrid initially but then he rephrases it. And Hagrid’s inability to teach here, I thought, really comes through because he has no idea why anybody would want a Blast-Ended Skrewt, no idea what to feed them and doesn’t really know a whole lot about their anatomy. Yet he’s willing to expose his students to them. So I’m sort of wondering, you know, is this a bad hire on Dumbledore’s part? We know Hagrid’s affinity for dangerous creatures but, you know, he doesn’t even know the – the important information about these things. He just kind of brought them to class.

Andrew: I have a feeling there’s going to be a certain theme with this whole Chapter-By-Chapter segment about how good Dumbledore is at managing the school because in Chapter 14 and 15, we also question the purpose of teaching the young students Unforgivable Curses. But isn’t – isn’t this sort of like the Sprout argument that you’re making? Like they’re not actually learning anything, they’re just sort of doing?

Micah: No, no, no. Sprout, I think is knowledgeable and she knows what she’s teaching. She just has a weird method of doing it whereas I don’t think Hagrid is very knowledgeable.

Nick: Yeah, Hagrid is just a hobby; he’s learning whilst he’s doing it and…

Andrew: Mhm.

Nick: …he’s then going to try to teach that to his kids at the same time.

Micah: You know, and we’ve said this before, that the Professors are a bunch of misfits at the school. They really are, you know, whether you’re talking about Hagrid or, you know, the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher, whomever that is, or Trelawney, you know. It doesn’t seem like there are a lot of established teachers that are there other than maybe McGonagall. I mean even Snape is a former Death Eater.

Andrew: [laughs] Well, hmm. I don’t – well, Dumbledore – obviously Dumbledore and Hagrid have a really good relationship. Dumbledore trusts Hagrid and Hagrid obviously does a really good job at taking care of the creatures. So, I think Dumbledore trusts that he knows something. And then again, what – what is the point of learning about these Blast-Ended Skrewts? I mean, I guess in school you do learn a lot of – you learn about quite a few things that you don’t really need to know but maybe – maybe Hagrid just had other things on his mind.

Nick: I guess also things like he’s been trying – teach the curriculum given by the Ministry and they’re not the sort of animals that excite Hagrid and things he knows about. It’s not the dragons he’s got to teach, it’s these Blast-Ended Skrewts. So I think it’s not necessarily his forte in the magical creature topic. That makes sense. It doesn’t, does it?

Micah: Yeah, it does. We’ll get to another teacher in a couple of minutes here but, you know, during this chapter Hermione sneaks off to the library several times so I just thought that that was important to note. We come to learn that, you know, eventually learn that she’s off planning SPEW.

Andrew: It’s not “SPEW” it’s “S-P-E-W!”

Micah: [laughs] I’m sorry there, Hermione. I’ll remember to say that from now on.

Andrew: Thank you.

Jamie: Wow, you guys are good.

Micah: But why the role reversal, though? Ron takes a couple digs at her. He says, “Oh, well now all of a sudden you’re stuffing your face – you obviously got hungry – that’s the reason why you’re willing to eat the food that the house-elves are preparing.” Why go back on your promise? Aren’t there other ways to get food?

Andrew: Well, she’s not going to starve to death.

Jamie: I think she was just hungry…

Andrew: I don’t think there’s other ways…

Jamie: It’s one of those things – you get principle – everyone’s got principles and some people think they’ve got to follow them all the time or they’re failing. And some think, well, there’s degrees of principality – or whatever the word is. She helps house-elves more than other people do, but she can’t – I guess, starve herself – like you say. I don’t know.

Andrew: It’s sort of like when you are against trees being cut down, but then you go and buy paper because – well, it’s going to be printed anyways – it’s not like I’m stopping it.

Jamie: Well, that – yeah, yeah…

Andrew: That’s at least what I think. It’s probably horrible, but – they’re making the food anyways. It’s going to be there whether Hermione rebels or not. I mean, sure…

Jamie: That’s terrible argument, Andrew. That’s an absolutely terrible argument.

Andrew: No – no. Well, and so is what Hermione’s doing. She’s all for it, but she’s still eating the food, so…

Jamie: Oh maybe…

Micah: Yep. Well, we’ll see what happens later on. But now they go off to double Divination with Trelawney. And during the class – of course Trelawney whenever Harry’s around predicts his imminent doom – and she tells him, “I fear the thing you dread will indeed come to pass and perhaps sooner than you think.” Now, I’m wondering what this is – because usually her predictions are pretty accurate, right?

Andrew: She dreads Voldemort coming back – he dreads Voldemort coming back. And it’s coming pretty soon.

Micah: Sure. All right. Also, during this class, as we all know, Lavender Brown really likes Professor Trelawney and is a bit of a show off in the class and she thinks she’s found some unnamed planet – I believe it was, and Professor Trelawny comes over and says, “No dear, that’s Uranus,” and then Ron says, “Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?”

Jamie: Eh, that’s a classic isn’t it?

[Andrew, Jamie and Micah laugh]

Micah: I thought this was the first real mature sort of joke that’s in the series.

Andrew: Yeah. But at the same time, this is totally the joke everyone said in high school too or middle school.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Ha, ha. Uranus.

Micah: Exactly. So it’s nice to see that there’s a little bit of dirty humor in the Potter series. But…

Andrew: Oh yeah, it’s very nice.

Micah: Well, you know.

Andrew: What are you saying about yourself, Micah?

Micah: That I like dirty humor.

Andrew: “I’m happy to see this dirty humor.”

Micah: I like dirty humor, that’s what I’m saying. There’s nothing wrong with that. Anyway, we move on and the trio are coming out of the Great Hall and they run into Draco Malfoy who’s bragging about the fact that Ron’s dad is in the Daily Prophet again. And of course it’s written by Rita Skeeter, and they get into a little bit of a fight and it goes something like this: Draco insults Arthur and Molly. Harry insults Narcissa. Draco tries to curse Harry, and then Mad-Eye Moody makes an appearance and turns Draco into a ferret. And this scene is completely taken out of context in the movie, because it doesn’t occur in the Great Hall. It’s actually after Ron and Harry get into a fight so Ron is not even there. It’s outside.

Jamie: It’s outside as well. isn’t it? Yeah, it doesn’t work really.

Andrew: But it was still really funny, and the look on Moody’s face in the film was hilarious, I think, as he’s controlling him. And actually besides it being out of context and in a different scene it was pretty loyal – it was pretty accurate. I mean how Moody was throwing him around and how McGonagall steps in and freaks out.

Micah: Yeah, the lines are actually the same too, you know, “Didn’t Dumbledore…”

Andrew: Yeah – yeah.

Micah: “…tell you about this?” He says, “Maybe,” or whatever it was.

Andrew: Yeah – yeah.

Micah: So, I’m wondering, do you think Mad-Eye overheard this conversation and he felt a need to step in and protect Ron because his father did come to his aid? And I know this is Barty Crouch Jr., but maybe Barty Crouch is thinking, ‘You know, Arthur came over to investigate for me. I need to sort of act as if I’m doing something good on behalf of his son.” Or do you think it was just a matter of chance that Moody was there?

Nick: I thought he was just trying to win over support and get closer to Harry and Ron.

Jamie: I think that’s completely true, Nick, yeah.

Andrew: Ah.

Jamie: He’s just trying to – Jo kind of perhaps tries to make you think that it’s because his dad helped him out, but yeah, it’s just to try and build his trust and get him to trust him so in the future he can screw him over, as it were.

Micah: Yeah. Now, I’m also wondering though, is Mad-Eye – slash Barty Crouch Jr. – so willing to do this to Draco because he really doesn’t like Lucius Malfoy? Moody tells Draco to tell his father that he will be keeping an eye on his son. Obviously, Barty Crouch is not Lucius Malfoy’s biggest fan, because he feels that Lucius betrayed Voldemort. So, is there a little bit of that in this to?

Jamie: Perhaps! That is a fair point as well. It’s always nice when there are several reasons for a character doing something, and I guess when there are several reasons, you can’t be sure which one is true, but I think as such a dedicated Death Eater, he will probably feel quite strongly about that, so I can imagine that perhaps as part true, or he got an extra kick out of it maybe, because of that.

Micah: But then Moody starts talking about who Draco’s Head of House is, and he refers to Snape as saying he needs to sit down and have a conversation with another old friend. Now, ‘another’ here is interesting because the only person he’s mentioned prior to this point is Lucius Malfoy, so I was wondering if this was a clue that Moody wasn’t necessarily who he appeared to be.

Jamie: That’s a fair point as well. Yeah, I guess if you read that closely – what was the first friend, and why is he friends with him? Actually, I think you probably just assume because he was an Auror, and Lucius Malfoy was a Death Eater he was trying to catch him, but I guess – yeah – you were wrong to think that, and really he was in league with him. It’s quite interesting, really. Yeah, it’s good writing.

Micah: Yeah, it’s almost like is it a sarcastic ‘old friend’…

Jamie: Or is it true?

Micah: …even though …

Jamie: It’s clever, yeah. Very clever.

Micah: …so…

Andrew: It’s a double meaning.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Micah: …exactly.

Andrew: Hopefully we’ll see more of these too, as we read along.

Micah: Yup.

Andrew: Now knowing the truth.

Micah: So, Harry and Ron are really excited, obviously, about the way that Moody has treated Draco and so they’re looking forward to his upcoming class, but Ron’s a bit upset because they have to wait a couple days in order to have Moody as a teacher but that wraps up that chapter.

Chapter-by-Chapter: “The Unforgivable Curses”

Andrew: All right, next is Chapter Fourteen: The Unforgivable Curses. We learn right off the top of the chapter that Snape is acting abnormally spiteful towards Moody, and what is the reason for that, Micah? I couldn’t figure it out.

Micah: Why does he not like Moody? Well…

Andrew: Yeah, more than other Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers.

Micah: …well I would say that he has the Defense Against the Dark Arts job, but…

Andrew: But the way Jo was writing it was that there was something even more, and I don’t know what that is. I mean, unless Snape just had a bad feeling about Moody and that was it.

Micah: …well at this point I don’t think he has any idea who Mad-Eye Moody is. He doesn’t believe him to be Barty Crouch Jr. in any way, so maybe he just doesn’t like the idea of an Auror potentially breathing down his neck and keeping an eye on him. Maybe he doesn’t trust him.

Andrew: Well in the previous chapter, the Weasley twins tell Ron that Moody is like no other teacher because he’s experienced the Dark Arts, and this is proven when Moody teaches the trio about Unforgivable Curses for the first time, and for the first lesson. He just basically jumps right into it as he says. He’s just like “lets go, lets do this.” Moody mentions he only has one year with the students and Ron asks why he’s only there for a year, and Moody says, “this year of teaching is just a special favor to Dumbledore,” and that’s interesting. I guess Moody and Dumbledore sort of just had this agreement that’s sort of in the style that Slughorn and Dumbledore do in Half-Blood Prince where Slughorn just says “one year,” – or, I don’t know if he says “one year”, but Dumbledore has to work to convince him. If Dumbledore is aware of this, had he already been thinking about a new DADA teacher to replace him, or did he just assume that Moody – after he came back, he would realize what he’s missing and hoping he’d stick around longer?

Jamie: Well, he’s quite optimistic and trusting, Dumbledore, so I think it’s kind of like when he tried to get Slughorn in and he was like, “well, trust me Harry, he’ll come back,” and stuff, I think.

Nick: I guess Dumbledore’s aware of the curse’s rule as well, so he’s probably already looking for next year, assuming he isn’t coming back.

Andrew: [laughs] He’s like, “I know you’re not going to survive one year anyways, so…”

Jamie: It could be a number of things, really.

Andrew: I don’t know, as Headmaster, I’d be working to somehow break that curse, but maybe with Voldemort around…

Jamie: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: …that just isn’t high up on the priorities list. So, getting back to the class that the trio are in, Moody mentions that despite the Ministry’s thinking, Dumbledore and Moody believe students should not have to wait until their sixth year to learn about Unforgivable Curses. Do you guys agree with this? It’s comparable to learning about major issues in the real world. You don’t really learn about this in classes – at least in American schools – but murdering and torture, this is basically what it’s comparable to, and the students here are what? 14? 15? Maybe 16? So, should they be learning about Unforgivable Curses in their fourth year?

Nick: And more importantly, why would he teach them this, because he’s just given Harry the ammo later on to use – we know he tries the spells and he’s not really successful at them, like the Crucio. Why would he teach them these things that will later be used against him and Voldemort and the Death Eaters? It’s crazy.

Jamie: I agree. I thought – well, it’s one of those questions that’s age old, isn’t it – and it’s sort of well, should people know about the world they live in, or should they live in a bubble, or how much should children be aware of, and how can you trust children to handle those issues in the right way? It’s a – she’s good at bringing ethical considerations into the books, and this is one of those things. They seem to handle it pretty well. You have the Fred and Georges that say, “Oh, that was cool. That was cool.” Neville, obviously, is pretty upset by it, and that’s because of personal circumstances, and I think that’s a good point that she’s making. You can say – you can do something and it could affect very few people, but it still affects a few people, so it’s hard to know where she stands on it, really. From that scene, it’s quite hard.

Micah: I think there’s a difference though, because most of these students, they know about the curses. It’s just actually seeing them applied to something, and I think there’s a huge difference there. They know the names of the curses. Moody goes around to the class and he asks, “What are the names of the Unforgivable Curses?”, and there’s a difference between knowing them and actually performing them, and I think to perform them in front of these students, though – do they really need to see that? If you read it in a book – this is what the Imperius Curse does, this is what the Cruciatus Curse does, this is what the Killing Curse does – I think you have a pretty good idea, you don’t need to see it necessarily in front of you.

Jamie: No, I think that’s true, yeah. But I can’t think…

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: …of a real world example, but yeah, it’s kind of like – yeah but you could argue that it’s showing them how it’s done so they don’t go and see it bad way, like with friends. And I know that he said, “Well, you aren’t powerful enough to create Avada Kedavra and the other curses,” but it’s kind of like showing them in the most – the best way possible so that they don’t hurt themselves trying to find out something that interests them. I don’t know. It can go both ways.

Andrew: Yeah, and I guess in Dumbledore’s and Mad-Eye’s defense, as you guys brought up, there’s – they can’t conduct these spells themselves; they’re just not powerful enough yet. So in that regard – and it is better that they are learning about it in an educational environment first, rather than seeing it firsthand. Because if they see if firsthand, they don’t really know what’s going on.

Jamie: But wait, you’re saying that if…

Andrew: If they are out in the street and they just happen to run into somebody doing a Crucio on somebody, they don’t know exactly – that it’s an Unforgivable Curse, what it actually does…

Jamie: I guess so, I guess so. I mean I can go in to his lesson and come out and think that the world’s completely out to get me, he seems to impart that on the on people, which is probably not – perhaps he doesn’t go about it the right way saying, “You need to know these things because people are going to attack you and you will need to know what to do.” Perhaps a better way would be, “We’re showing you this so you don’t do it yourself and these are really deadly and some people may do it” – I don’t know, again it’s the character, he would do that so that’s how he would act.

Andrew: Well…

Jamie: I guess you can’t really say it’s wrong.

Andrew: Like we mentioned, they watch these – they watch Moody do these spells on – do these curses on spiders, and it’s a bit unsettling and it makes everyone feel kind of nervous in the classroom. After the lesson the trio find Neville shaken by what Moody had said and performed. And when approaching Neville about it – when the trio approach Neville about it – Moody walks up and offers Neville some tea at his office. And while we don’t know at the time, presumably, Moody’s talking to Neville – do you guys think that Moody talked to Neville about how his parents were tortured? And of course this is Barty Crouch, Jr., the one who tortured his parents. So, I mean, lord knows what the heck went on in the office…

Nick: I’d imagine he was getting some kick out telling him.

Andrew: Yeah, enjoying hearing the son – [laughs] – talk about…

Jamie: Yeah…

Andrew: And this is the point at which Moody – which we’ll find out later on – plants the clue on Neville for the second task about the…

Jamie: Gillyweed.

Andrew: Yeah, the Gillyweed.

Micah: Now, isn’t it different in the movie too? Because I don’t think it is the same in the book. I don’t think that Neville is the one who mentions the Cruciatus Curse. Is he?

Jamie: Yeah, no, he does, just because Moody’s – oh wait, are you talking about the book or the film…

Micah: The film, he does. Because I think they do it in the film to set up that plot point. But I don’t think he does…

Jamie: No, he does in the book as well…

Micah: Does he?

Jamie: No, no, he puts his arm up, and he’s really nervous and Moody asks him to repeat it. And he goes, “Your name’s Neville, isn’t it?”

Andrew: Oh, yeah, yeah…

Jamie: And his hands go white and that’s when Hermione tells him to stop doing it on that spider.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. I think you’re right. So then Harry spots Fred and George writing something together – this is later in the night, in the common room. And they’re looking suspicious in the corner. The only hint of what’s going on is when he overhears George say, “No, that sounds like we’re accusing him. Got to be careful.” So we’ll learn about that later on. Then Hermione comes in to the common room and introduces her brand new campaign, S.P.E.W. This is what Hermione has been working on in the library, like Micah said earlier. And she, quote, “Can’t believe no one has done anything about it before now.” And Hermione gets kind of bossy here, and hires Ron and Harry as treasurer and secretary, respectively, without ever really asking them. And there is not too much SPEW talk, I mean S.P.E.W talk here because then, all of a sudden, Hedwig shows up with the letter from Sirius. And Sirius says he’s coming back immediately because Harry’s visions are in line with the rumors he had been hearing. He doesn’t say where or when he’ll arrive, he just says that he’s coming back north. And this angers Harry, because he doesn’t want Sirius to get caught by the Dementors, because then it would really be all his fault that he was caught again. And this leads us into Chapter 15. Micah, could you kick us off, and we’ll go back and forth on this.

Chapter-by-Chapter: “Beauxbatons and Durmstrang”

Micah: Sure. So, still feeling guilty about Sirius’ decision to come back, Harry writes a letter to him saying that everything is fine, and he only imagined that his scar was hurting. And ‘Casper’ tweeted in:

“Isn’t Harry a bit naive when he tries to stop Sirius from coming? ‘I reckon I just imagined my scar hurting, I was half asleep.'”

Is the quote.

Jamie: I think it’s more than naive, I think it’s reckless. He’s – you know, if he’d believed him – which he didn’t – then the entire book could’ve gone a completely different way. It’s just – it’s really stupid of him to do stuff like that. I know he doesn’t like to think that people – that he’s causing issues with people or he’s making people do things because of him rather than because they want to, but he’s just – it is a stupid thing to do. But it is him, I guess, Sirius sees it in James, and that’s why he knows straightaway, but…

Andrew: Yeah, and as we – when Sirius gets – replies back to Harry’s letter saying, “Oh no, it was just – I was just imagining it,” did Harry really think – like ‘Casper’ said, was Sirius really going to be like, “Oh, okay, fine, never mind, peace out.” I mean, Sirius is bored, too. It’s not like he has anything else going on, so he gets excited – I think, in a weird way, to know that he has something to start.

Micah: Yeah. It’s like another adventure with James, almost.

Andrew: Yeah!

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. That’s why he likes it, yeah.

Andrew: So a few weeks later, we’re back in Moody’s class, and in taking this curse stuff a step further he gets permission from Dumbledore to put the Imperius Curse on each of them so they know what it feels like. And – I – this is where Dumbledore’s decisions – the decisions he makes come into question. How can this be okay? I mean, this is one of the Unforgivable Curses. And granted, Moody’s not making them do anything inappropriate or making them kill themselves, but I just think this is so bizarre that this would be allowed. And Moody makes them dance around, but shouldn’t the parents have to agree…

Micah: Yes.

Andrew: …to this?

Micah: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you knew that this type of teaching was going on at school – first of all, the fact that they taught the Unforgivable Curses is one thing. Now they’re performing them on the students? It’s…

Jamie: I know. Yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: That’s stretching it a bit. It’s almost like when you have something comparable happen in public school here where the parents don’t agree, whether it’s a book being taught or a particular subject being brought up. You know, it causes all this controversy. I would imagine it would cause a tremendous amount of controversy.

Jamie: Especially because they need to have a signed form to go into Hogsmeade, when it’s just a village…

Micah: [laughs] Exactly. And…

Jamie: …and you know, they don’t need a form for that.

Micah: You need one for a field trip…

Nick: The fact Harry’s in the class is making him lose his judgement and do things he wouldn’t normally do.

Jamie: I mean, I guess – like, the Imperius Curse is a really weird one, because I don’t really see how you can have a curse in the world where you can just, you know – I mean, for example, it would completely mess up the law about rape, for a start. Like, it would be impossible to quantify anything in that world legally with the Imperius Curse. I mean, they say that. They say it was impossible when Voldemort was around. Everyone was under the Imperius Curse. I – it doesn’t – I mean, I don’t know. It’s just everyone could be under it. You wouldn’t ever know who was acting of their own accord. And if the use of it is enough to get a life sentence in Azkaban, but no one’s going to know they’ve been under it. It’s kind of weird, really.

Micah: Yeah, and I think the only thing this is here to do is to set up the fact that Harry can resist the Imperius Curse.

Jamie: Yeah, it is. Definitely, definitely.

Micah: So – and…

Andrew: Wild.

Micah: What’s that?

Andrew: Wild. Go ahead.

Jamie: Wild.

Micah: But I think that’s the point though, isn’t it? Harry says that he actually enjoys the sensation, but then realizes he can fight back. So he tries to fight it off completely, but is ultimately unsuccessful. And then somebody tweeted in, ‘Paul94uk’:

“In Chapter 15 Harry resists the Imperius Curse, so do you think he could resist all the Unforgivable Curses?”

Jamie: Well, he did resist Avada Kedavra. We wouldn’t have a book if he hadn’t done that.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: But doesn’t…

Jamie: Crucio.

Micah: Yeah, Voldemort performs that on him at the end of this book, doesn’t he?

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. And he…

Jamie: And it hurts like hell, so…

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: I guess not.

Andrew: Well, two for three isn’t too bad. I mean, it’s more than anyone else can say. [laughs]

Jamie: That’s not bad at all, really.

Micah: If I’m not mistaken, doesn’t he also use the Imperious Curse on him at some point in the series?

Jamie: Yeah. He makes him – oh no! He makes him bow. Oh no, no, no! Doesn’t – because it says, “Harry felt that familiar feeling.”

Micah: Was it Deathly Hallows that they use the Imperius Curse on him?

Jamie: No, no, Micah! It’s in Goblet of Fire at the end when he’s like, “Bow! Bow!” And then he’s like, “I won’t! I won’t!” And then Voldemort says, “Oh, you won’t, will you? I value bravery,” or whatever, something like that. I can’t believe I still remember that. I haven’t read that book in ages. But yeah, I think it’s then. Hey, Andrew – I’ve got…

Andrew: Well, and…

Jamie: I’ve got a question for you. Which do you think hurts more, the Cruciatus Curse or in Twilight when that Volturi vampire says “Pain”?

Andrew: [laughs] That’s a good question. I mean, they both seem to have equal effects. But because I will be flamed if I give the wrong answer here, I will say that the Harry Potter one hurts much worse.

Jamie: Yeah!

Andrew: Because, I mean, J. K. Rowling’s clearly a better writer so…

Jamie: Yeah! That’s the right answer!

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: Well done! Full marks to you!

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: Jamie, I can’t believe you read Twilight. You may want to come on my other podcast.

Jamie: I have not. I’ve seen the film.

Andrew: Oh! Sure, sure!

Jamie: I would have if you invited me!

Andrew: [laughs] Oh! We will have to talk about that. But the way Jo described Harry realizing he can control the curse actually makes it sound really easy. It seems to come really easy to Harry because he just has this little head – this little voice in the back of his head that says, “Oh, wait! Hold on! I can stop this. I can get in control of this decision making that’s going on right now.” So it was interesting that Jo described it as kind of being easy to take over and yet it’s not easy for everyone. So, I guess it takes over your mind to the point where you can’t even think that you can control it. [laughs] So, I don’t know. The writing there is pretty interesting.

Micah: What do you think about the other tweet?

Andrew: Yeah. We got this other tweet from protagonistDev:

“I never understood how the Imperius Curse worked. Does the one who conjures has to be there near the victim like a puppet?”

Do we see Moody actually say the spell?

Jamie: Or does he do it silently?

Andrew: I don’t think so.

Jamie: I think he does for dramatic effect because when he says…

Andrew: Silently?

Jamie: No, no, no. Out loud because when he says Avada Kedavra, Harry feels a thrill of foreboding and a rush of power. I think he does because it’s easily exclamation markable and people like it and I don’t know. Perhaps he does it once but he doesn’t the other time or something.

Andrew: Well – and that may answer that question. I imagine that you have to be looking at the person to take over them. I can’t imagine that they can be in a different part of the school.

Micah: Well, you have to remember that Barty Crouch Sr. is under the Imperius Curse for this entire book pretty much from Peter Pettigrew and Barty Crouch – well, obviously Barty Crouch Jr. has left so Peter Pettigrew is the one putting the Imperius Curse on him. So, how close does Peter Pettigrew have to be to Barty Crouch Sr.? Is he like living in the basement or something? I really don’t remember, to be honest.

Nick: I always imagined that the wand would have to point at the person. You have to be within the vicinity to cast the spell, and once they’re under the Imperius Curse – you have to be around them.

Andrew: I’m looking at the book now. It says “Moody raised his wand, pointed it at Harry and said ‘Imperio!‘” So yes, you say it out loud and yes, you have to point at the person.

Micah: But how long does it last?

Jamie: I think they said that you have to top it up, don’t you? You can’t just leave it and it doesn’t last forever.

Nick: Yeah, because they’ll naturally resist it over time.

Andrew: Yeah, and Moody keeps saying “Jump on the desk! Jump on the desk! Jump now!” And maybe that’s because Harry is resisting it, but maybe that’s what you have to do to kind of keep it going. You have to keep saying things, giving commands. Okay, so moving along, we learn – well, the students learn that the Beauxbatons and Durmstrang students will be arriving in just a matter of days. And meanwhile, Fred and George confront Hermione about her S.P.E.W. campaign and insist that the house-elves are happy where they are, but still Hermione has none of this. A little bit later in the chapter, Harry gets a letter back from Sirius who knows that Harry is lying about the scar pain being from his imagination as we mentioned earlier, and Sirius says “Don’t worry, Harry. I’m well hidden, I’m not going to get caught.” So then at the end of the chapter the Beauxbatons and Durmstrang students arrive. We meet Madame Maxime and her students with the arrival of their huge carriage, and she’s adamant about her horses being well taken care of, but Dumbledore assures her that her future love interest, of course being Hagrid, will take care of them just fine. Despite not being able to handle…

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Not even being able to handle Blast-Ended Skrewts.

Jamie: Giant horses next.

Andrew: Right. And then the Durmstrang students show up with their giant ship, and Ron quickly notices that his idol Krum is in the group!

Jamie: Wow.

Andrew: So exciting. He’s so hot.

Micah: I was going to say, that’s probably a lot to clean up with those horses if they’re that big.

Jamie: Yeah. It’d take forever, wouldn’t they?

Micah: I think there’s actually a part later on in the book where Hagrid is cleaning out the – never mind, but…

Andrew: We’ll know later. [laughs]

MuggleCast 211 Transcript (continued)

Muggle Mail: Mistakes

Andrew: So that’s it for Chapter-by-Chapter. Next episode we will look at Chapters 16-18, so look forward to that. Let’s get to some Muggle Mail now. Nick, could you read the first email from Charlotte?

Nick: Sure. This is from Charlotte – she’s 24 and from Knoxville. And she writes:

“I was just listening to Episode 210, and I noticed a couple of mistakes. When Micah was talking about the latest ‘Deathly Hallows’ news, he said Scabior was a new character not mentioned in the book. Scabior was mentioned in ‘Deathly Hallows’ starting on page 448 of the U.S. hardcover edition as one of the Snatchers. During your Chapter-by-Chapter discussion, you were talking about how dustbins that were set off in Moody’s yard seemed too simple for someone like him. Barty Crouch Jr. was the one who set off the dustbins,” and she quotes, “‘I made the dustbins move about the yard. I told Arthur Weasley I had heard intruders in my yard, who had set off the dustbins.’ I think Crouch set them off in order to make it look like more of a struggle. I love the show and think you guys do an awesome job, Charlotte.”

Andrew: Other than your screw-ups.

Micah: Yeah, exactly.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: No, I thought that Scabior was the one that was made up for this – wasn’t there a Death Eater that was made up specifically for this film? Or am I making that up?

Andrew: Well, we probably have to look into that. I don’t know.

Micah: Well, okay. Apparently he was in the book. I apologize. The dustbin thing is probably my fault, too, so I’m 0 for 2 so far.

Andrew: Micah, as your punishment, read the next email.

Jamie: Bad boy.

Andrew: You bad, bad boy.

Muggle Mail: Jo on the Bus

Micah: [laughs] Next email comes from Kristina, 22, of Sweden, and she says:

“Hi MuggleCasters, my friend and I really had to laugh about your discussion on whether J.K. Rowling still rides a bus. I always thought it was a nasty and untrue cliche that Americans drive absolutely everywhere by car, and I was surprised to hear that you really find the idea strange that someone who could afford a driver would go by bus. I’m from Sweden so I can’t really judge the situation in the U.K., but where I live it is quite common for politicians and celebrities to go by train, bus, or bicycle and I guess it’s the same in most parts of Europe. Also, I think Jo would want her children to grow up as normally as possible, and in most parts of the world that includes using public transportation. This is the first time I’m writing to you, but I’ve been a fan for many years. Thank you for never failing to make me laugh, even if this time it was unintentional. Lots of love, Kristina”

Andrew: So, we did get Jo’s answer. This got brought up last episode when a commercial for Oprah had Oprah asking Jo the question “Is it true you still ride the bus?” and it cuts to Jo and she does this little shudder but she doesn’t answer because it’s a teaser. So Jo ended up saying that she rode it, I think, as recently as a year ago. So all right, I stand corrected. Now I sound like an idiot that just believes Jo’s too good to take a bus. But turns out that she still does. And good for her. Buses are nice. That’s how…

Micah: I mean, here Mayor Bloomberg goes by subway to work everyday and he’s a billionaire.

Andrew: Oh really?

Micah: I guess people do use public transportation that are celebrities. I don’t think we were discounting that every celebrity has a driver that takes them somewhere.

Andrew: I was.

Micah: You were?

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Muggle Mail: Rita Skeeter

Andrew: Next email comes from Seth, 19, of New Jersey – my home state.

“Hey MuggleCast, in your recent episode (210), Micah had mentioned that Rita Skeeter”

Oh, is this you making a mistake again?

“Micah had mentioned that Rita Skeeter had found out about Bertha Jorkins’s disappearance because [imitating Micah] ‘It’s just one of those examples of the press getting hold of information that they shouldn’t have.’ I do agree with this comment but it’s also probably because Rita is an Animagus and was probably snooping around.”

So Micah, you weren’t wrong here.

Micah: We’re not that far in the book yet, though.

Andrew: Right. When we do these – I guess it’s probably important to make clear, when we do these Chapter-by-Chapter segments we try to take it from the standpoint as if – sometimes – as if we hadn’t read ahead because otherwise some of these things aren’t really worth discussing, so we take it from the information we know so far in the book and the previous books.

Micah: Yeah, if it’s necessary to make the point that something happens later on we’ll do that, but sometimes when you’re quoting from further along in the book or further along in the series, it kind of takes away from what we’re doing with the Chapter-by-Chapter.

Andrew: Micah, or Jamie, could you read the final email from Kyle?

Muggle Mail: Durmstrang

Jamie: Yep, Kyle, 18, from London, nice place:

“Hey, MuggleCasters, my email this week relates to the comment on Episode 210 about the fact that why did Durmstrang have no involvement in the final battle. Do you think that the students and teachers at Hogwarts would have trusted having them join in and fight? I mean, from all that we have learned about them throughout the books, it would have been a big risk. They don’t let Muggle-borns into their school, their headmaster was a Death Eater, it’s notorious for teaching the Dark Arts, and was the school that taught the dark wizard Grindelwald. Wouldn’t it be more likely that they would join Voldemort’s side than defend Hogwarts? Anyway, just my thoughts. You guys are great, and I’ve been an avid listener since about Episode 70, keeping me up-to-date with all things Potter, which I can’t thank enough. Kyle.”

Thanks, Kyle!

Andrew: That’s about the time that Jamie, or Nick sounded like Jamie, or Jamie sounded like Nick.

Jamie: When? Episode 210?

Micah: Episode 70.

Andrew: Voice-wise, yeah.

Nick: It gave the transcribers some difficulties.

[Andrew and Nick laugh]

Nick: [laughs] Sorry, guys!

Micah: Well, isn’t that pigeonholing Durmstrang a bit? Like saying that all of them would join up with Voldemort’s side? And Karkaroff is dead at this point, so just because…

Jamie: It probably is true that you can’t, you wouldn’t be sure, you know, sort of. You might ask them to join in, but then there’ll be a few of them that don’t agree with fighting Voldemort, and I guess a few of them, you know, if they’re insiders, could cause a lot of damage.

Micah: Well, they can sit out. They don’t have to participate!

Jamie: It’s not like an American football game where there’s a bench!

Micah: [laughs] Yeah, they’re going to substitute Durmstrang in for this play. But, I don’t know. You would think that some of them that had come to Hogwarts to spend this year here would have come to fight against Voldemort. Just because Karkaroff led their school…

Jamie: True, true.

Micah: Doesn’t mean that they’re all bad. I know Draco says earlier in the series that he thought about going to Durmstrang because of the Dark Arts. But…

Andrew: Well, but how long would it take for them to get there? And…

Jamie: Well, they’d Apparate. Apparate, Apparate.

Andrew: But they couldn’t into the castle – I guess they could right outside the school.

Jamie: Oh, true true.

Andrew: But they couldn’t into the school. So…

Micah: I think it would have been more effective though if they came the same way that they did in this book. The battle’s going on and all of a sudden like, that scene were you have the Hogsmeade villagers coming…

Andrew: The ship emerges.

Jamie: Yeah, I was thinking that, Andrew. I was thinking that.

Micah: Yeah, the ship…

Andrew: Pirates of the Caribbean-ish.

Micah: Yeah, the ship comes up…

Jamie: Oh, oh.

Micah: And the carriage comes in from the sky. That would have been – that would make a great movie scene too.

Jamie: No, you see I was going to say like in Lord of the Rings when Aragorn runs forward and then the ghost army comes out behind him. That would be so cool, a scene like that.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Instead you’ve got wimpy Hogsmeade villagers that are running with like pots and pans.

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: But they’re close by! When you consider how detailed, how many people actually showed up for the final battle, it’s almost sort of like, well if Jo wrote them in would they – would it take up too much extra time because they would kind of – they would probably need a little introduction again?

Jamie: Yeah, maybe, yeah.

Andrew: There may have been some technical difficulties adding them in, and you can’t have everyone. That would be a good question for Jo.

Jamie: I do see what you mean, Micah, because like for the final battle, it’s like the fight for the whole of the wizarding world and it takes place at a school.

Andrew: That’s true.

Jamie: You’d think it would take place at the capitol with spectators and everyone joining the fight like it’s a bit sort of – I mean if the good people lose, surely Voldemort will reign supreme over the entire country, or though perhaps he won’t because you’ll still have people fighting the fight from the Order of the Phoenix so what is the final battle for? Is it merely for Harry’s life when you consider it or is it for control of the whole wizarding world? With Dumbledore gone it’s quite – unless Harry kills Voldemort, he’s pretty much going to take over isn’t he?

Micah: Yeah.

Jamie: I would say.

The Dueling Club

Andrew: Okay, so now as we promised at the top of the show, it’s time for the Dueling Club segment. We haven’t done this in a very long time. This is famous witches and wizards, and how we play this, if I remember correctly [laughs], is we take two people, in this case the theme this week is famous witches and wizards, and we figure out who would win.

Micah: That’s right.

Andrew: Actually, the last time we did this was the interview with David Heyman.

Micah: That’s right.

Andrew: Micah, [laughs] and you did this with him.

Micah: Yeah, David Heyman got the upper hand on me, I will say.

Andrew: I hear now that he does this with the…

Jamie: Did he like it?

Micah: Yeah, he did actually!

Jamie: That is really cool! That’s cool.

Andrew: Yeah, you should listen to it. It was pretty funny. He’s like, “Are you conceding defeat already, Micah?”

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: When Micah just gives up. [laughs] It was funny. I hear that he plays this with the crew now…

Jamie: Oh, nice!

Andrew: When they’re working together.

Jamie: I hope he credits us. I hope he credits us.

Andrew: [laughs] “Hey guys, I heard this great thing on MuggleCast, you want to play?”

Jamie: Yeah.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: “What the hell is MuggleCast?”

Jamie: Andrew, Andrew, I read a story – I don’t know if it’s true or not – that Emma Watson was in one of her classes at Brown, and the teacher asked a question and she answered it correctly, and someone in the back said, “Ten points to Gryffindor!” [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I feel like I heard that somewhere too, and that is so hilarious.

Micah: First up, Dumbledore versus Merlin. Andrew, you take Dumbledore. Jamie, you take Merlin. Andrew, you go first.

Andrew: Dumbledore is clearly the greatest wizard of all time, there’s no question about this. If you ask anyone on the street, “Who’s going to win, Dumbledore or Merlin?” more people will say Dumbledore just because they know him better. This is someone who’s been fighting Voldemort all his life. What did Merlin do? Who did he fight? He didn’t fight anyone. He didn’t have to take down anyone. Did Merlin sacrifice himself for the greater good? I don’t think so.

Jamie: All right. I think, actually, Andrew is completely wrong, and if you ask most people in the street, “Name a famous wizard,” I think more would say Merlin after Gandalf than would say Dumbledore. I also think that if you consider that Dumbledore has the Deathly Hallows as the biggest legend surrounding him, and you think, “well that’s quite a big legend,” but it’s only involved in Harry Potter thing, whereas Merlin was involved in the search for the Holy Grail. Everyone’s heard of the Holy Grail, and if you can trust someone to that kind of task, they’ve got to be pretty damn powerful. And I think Merlin’s probably got access to different types of wizardry, whereas Dumbledore is more of a Harry Potter book thing only, whereas Merlin comes in different guises, and he’s probably had more experience than Dumbledore. I think he’s probably older than Dumbledore as well, and age is wiseness and blah, blah, blah, so I think Merlin would cane Dumbledore.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Well, I would just like to add this fact to it. I mean, isn’t Dumbledore ‘Order of Merlin, First Class’?

Jamie: Awww!

Micah: And there is no ‘Order of Dumbledore’.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh, darn it!

Jamie: Awww, that is a great, great – that is brilliant. That is absolutely brilliant. If I…

[Andrew sighs]

Jamie: I wish I had just said that. I would have just been, like, “Andrew, what is the Order that Dumbledore has got?” And he said, “Merlin,” and I said, “I rest my case.” [laughs]

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Well, that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is a – that he is not better. I mean, to be fair, Merlin and Dumbledore never had a duel, so we don’t know for sure. Just because – I mean, the only reason Merlin has this ‘Order of Merlin’ award thing going on is because he was – he existed first.

Jamie: Or because he is richly powerful and really cool, and kills wizards for show and could kill Dumbledore with his little finger, maybe.

Andrew: All right. Let’s take one more then.

Micah: All right.

Andrew: Micah and Nick. Ravenclaw – well, who won that, by the way? I guess Jamie did with the Merlin thing.

Jamie: No, don’t put yourself down!

Andrew: Well, I can’t go – the Order of Merlin thing was…

Jamie: That was an awesome point. That was a great…

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: …point.

Andrew: All right. Nick and Micah. Micah, I will assign you Ravenclaw. Rowena Ravenclaw, right? We’re doing that. And Nick, you will have Salazar Slytherin. Nick, you go first. Why would Slytherin defeat – or why would Salazar defeat Rowena?

Nick: Salazar Slytherin would kill Rowena big style because he is more powerful, he has more skills, he has the mind-set to use the Dark Magic, and cunning. And to be deceiving and – I don’t know. Just generally more powerful than Rowena. She has got her intellect, but does intellect beat strength?

Micah: Well, I think in a battle that intelligence and wisdom is more important than actual action. You need sort of the intelligent side of it in order to outwit your opponent and I think that Rowena would definitely be able to do that on Slytherin. Slytherin strikes me as somebody that rushes to judgment, not thinking before he acts, whereas Rowena would think things through and possibly end up trapping Slytherin in some kind of way. I mean, she designed the moving staircases in Hogwarts. I mean, what has Slytherin ever done? Create some dumpy chamber in the basement of the school?

Andrew: Mmm, all right. I’m sorry, Nick. I’m…

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: …going to have to give this one to Micah. I feel…

Nick: Yeah.

Andrew: …his argument was stronger.

Nick: I concede.

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Andrew: Well, if you guys agree or disagree with us, feel free to write in and let us know why, and maybe we’ll read it on the show.

Micah: I have a feeling we will get a lot on the Dumbledore-Merlin side of things.

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: I think they are just going to get people saying that was an awesome point, Micah. That ended him. [laughs]

MuggleNet Giveaways

Andrew: [laughs] Well, we have quite a few things going on with MuggleNet that we want to tell you about before we wrap up the show. First of all, a ton of giveaways. Last week, we had a Hot Topic giveaway. That was a lot of fun. We gave away two Hot Topic Deathly Hallows t-shirts. We currently have a pop-up book giveaway going on, as well as a – which of these – I can’t even keep track. We currently have an Ultimate Edition giveaway going on and we also have the pop-up book going on. What’s going on with Film Wizardry one?

Micah: Okay, so by the time this show is out – it will probably only be a couple of days away, we’re going to be giving away a couple of copies of the Harry Potter Film Wizardry book that we talked about on this show earlier. And I think what we will do is we will probably give them away through some creative contest that we come up with on the site as well as maybe give one copy away on this show. Maybe the next episode, Episode 212, we’ll give away…

Andrew: Excellent.

Micah: …a copy of that, so look for that coming next week. The Ultimate Editions sweepstakes – that is really cool because the grand prize winner gets a brand new Blu-ray player as well as…

Jamie: Nice.

Micah: …copies of Prisoner of Azkaban and Goblet of Fire Ultimate Edition. And then there is some runner-up prizes as well. So that started today, which is on Saturday, October 16th and you have all the way until November 14th to sign up, so you got a little less than a month to be able to win those prizes. So, just a lot of stuff going on.

Andrew: And the pop-up book – that contest just started just a few days ago. And that one, not only can you win a pop-up book, but you can also win four tickets to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter theme park plus a $1,000 gift card to help you get down there.

Micah: Wow.

Andrew: So these prizes are nothing to sneeze at. They are pretty good. And these prizes, by the way, are being funded right out of Micah’s wallet. So…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: …very generous…

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: …of you.

Micah: Very generous of me. And it’s like everything is happening next week. October 19th, Prisoner of Azkaban and Goblet of Fire, those Ultimate Editions come out in stores. That’s when the Film Wizardry book is coming out. No surprise there that they would look…

Andrew: And the pop-up book…

Micah: And the…

Andrew: …on the…

Micah: …pop-up book. And then I think October 19th is when we will open up that giveaway for the Film Wizardry book. So, just a…

Andrew: Actually, I have a correction. The pop-up book comes out November 16th, but whatever! Point is…

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: …all this stuff is coming out [laughs] and you want to buy it all.

Micah: Or win it!

Split Script Contest

Andrew: So – yeah, or win it. Right. So, best thing to do is just keep an eye on MuggleNet. We have lots of updates going on there. Also, quick update, Micah, regarding the Deathly Hallows Split Script Contest.

Micah: Yeah, people entered, probably at this point, over a month [laughs] ago and we’ve had a little technical trouble getting a poll together, but we’ve finally done that. So hopefully by the time this show is released we will have the finalists up. A lot of people entered this competition, close to a hundred entries. We thank everybody obviously for entering because we know it takes a lot of work to sit down and write these things out. So look for that and of course the winners – the top three will get a signed copy [laughs] of’s Harry Potter Should Have Died which…

Andrew: There you go!

Micah: …everybody…

Andrew: Look at that!

Micah: …should have a copy of.

MuggleNet Updates

Andrew: All right. And also, content-wise on MuggleNet, we have new recipes, fan arts, fan of the week, and a bunch of other stuff being updated every week. So check those out as well as two new editions to MuggleNet. For one, the Wizarding World Easter Egg section. It points out all the little intricacies of the Wizarding World. All the little hidden things they have throughout the park. So if you’re going to go or if you want to go, check that section out so you are well prepared to know where you can find all the hidden little goodies throughout the park. Also, we have a new editorial added by Lady Lupin. She is a long time editorialist for MuggleNet. She wrote this great article. It’s been getting some amazing feedback from people who have read it, about comparing Book Harry’s growth and the knowledge that Film Harry has and what are the things that the films have left out that have an effect on Book Harry’s ability to get to the climax of the story.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: It’s called Half-Baked Prince/Half-Baked Harry. Definitely check it out.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Micah, you loved it, I know.

Micah: Yeah. No, it was really interesting to read that because it shows you just how much the films have left out and she…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: …really hit all major points.

Andrew: Somebody said, “Way to go, MuggleNet. You’re going to really upset W.B.” [laughs]

Micah: We have done that…

Andrew: We…

Micah: …a long time ago, so don’t worry about that.

Andrew: Yeah, and we didn’t publish it in – to be, like, W.B., you suck. It’s just an interesting look at what they have left out, and the screenwriters should actually give it a read. [laughs]

Micah: Yeah, they really…

Andrew: They will feel really crappy…

Micah: They really should.

Show Close

Andrew: …about themselves. [laughs] Okay, so on top of all of that, please visit for all the information about the show. You will be able to subscribe and review us on iTunes. You can follow us on Twitter and send us in feedback that we actually read on the air, as you have seen. And also like us on Facebook. We’re about to cross 20,000 fans on Facebook. We currently – oh, actually, no. We passed it this week. So, yay, we have 20,000 fans on Facebook. If you haven’t become a fan of us on Facebook yet, just go to and every time we release a new episode you will get an update saying, “Hey, the new one is out! Give it a listen.” And you can talk with other fans who are also listeners and you can talk about the show right there on Facebook.

Micah: Everything that I said wrong…

[Jamie laughs]

Micah: …in the show, you can talk about it…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …which is a lot.

Andrew: We quite frequently gossip.

Jamie: Yeah, that’s…

Micah: Except Order of Merlin…

Jamie: You can’t argue…

Micah: …First Class.

Jamie: …with that until…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: That is the name…

Nick: That is for Micah winning.

Micah: …of this show. That is…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Episode 211: Order of Merlin, First Class.

Andrew: I’ll call it ‘Order of Micah…’

Micah: There you go.

Andrew: ‘…First Class’. How about that?

Micah: That is even better. That…

Nick: Yeah.

Micah: …may top the – Jamie, do you remember – I don’t even know…

[Show music begins]

Micah: …what episode this was, but the – was it the Patronus comment that I made about the otter being related to the weasel?

Jamie: That rings a bell. What did…

Micah: Do you remember that?

Jamie: Oh, it’s so – yeah, yeah. It was something that made us laugh to do with that. Was it to do with someone’s Patronus?

Micah: Yeah, yeah. That Hermione’s Patronus was an otter and that it is part of the weasel family.

Jamie: Oh, yeah. I think I remember you saying that. Yeah, yeah. That…

Andrew: Oh, Jamie collapsed to the floor.

Micah: Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: He was, like, “Can we have five minutes or five moments – [laughs] – of silence to appreciate that?”

Jamie: You do come out with some insane points at times. Just blown away points, yeah.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Thanks everyone for listening! It’s been a very fun show and we’ll see you next time for Episode 212. Buh-bye!

Jamie: Bye!

Micah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

[Show music continues]