Transcript #212

MuggleCast 212 Transcript

Show Intro

[Intro music begins]

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[“Hedwig’s Theme” plays]

David Heyman: Hello this is David Heyman and I’m the producer of the Harry Potter films and this is MuggleCast.

[Show music begins]

Andrew: Because Micah has it in for the Hufflepuffs, this is MuggleCast Episode 212 for November 1st, 2010.

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Welcome everyone – MuggleCast Episode 212. Eric, Micah and me are here this week to tell you about Harry Potter. What’s going on in the wizarding world? There’s obviously a lot going on with the movie just a couple weeks away, and we’re here to give you our thoughts in a timely, efficient, and hopefully humorous manner.

Eric: Who’s that, Andrew?

Andrew: Eric, actually I have a bone to pick. Well, since it is technically our Halloween episode we should probably mention your Halloween costume this year.

Eric: Oh no.

Andrew: I think it stole the show. If anyone’s friends with Eric on Facebook – I mean who isn’t, really – you’ll see a whole album of photos of
Eric dressed up as a Hogwarts student.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: A female Hogwarts student.

Eric: Pansy Parkinson.

Andrew: Complete with a corsage.

Eric: Corset.

Andrew: Corset.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: A corsage is…

Andrew: Is a corsage a flower?

Eric: A flower. Yeah. It’s a corset and yeah, it’s Pansy Parkinson was the objective there.

Andrew: Ah, well you make a great Pansy.

Eric: Well, thank you!

Andrew: Yes. I was kind of weirded out by it. I don’t know.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I wouldn’t do a female Hogwarts student. But you were at a Harry Potter meet-up group, so that’s cool.

Eric: Yeah, it was kind of a Halloween – Harry Potter themed Halloween party. I think my mom must have seen those pictures, because I haven’t heard from her in a few days. So I don’t know what the deal is, but yeah, that’s – that album is public on Facebook, so…

Micah: Your mom’s on Facebook?

Eric: Yeah, my mom’s on Facebook.

Micah: Oh.

Andrew: My mom’s on Facebook.

Micah: I was disappointed, I didn’t get a chance to meet her in Orlando.

Eric: Yeah, that was upsetting. She was there.

Andrew: That’s kinda weird too, that you would want to do that.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: But anyway, let’s get into some – let’s get this show started. I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum, before you set up your date with Eric’s mother, why don’t you let us know what’s going on in the news?

News: Deathly Hallows TV Spots

Micah: Well, as you mentioned earlier, Andrew, there’s a lot going on. We’re just weeks away from Deathly Hallows: Part I, and Warner Bros. has been just churning that P.R. machine, and they released what I call an endless supply of TV spots. And we’ve all seen them. I’m sure most of our listeners have seen them by this point. And I really want to know, are they revealing too much of this film?

Andrew: [laughs] Stop! Listen. Come on…

Micah: Eric, can you recreate the film, frame by frame…

Eric: Yes.

Micah: …now with what you’ve seen having gone…

Eric: Yes.

Micah: …to the preview…

Eric: Yes.

Micah: …or the screening? You probably can sit down on your computer, load up some program, and just go and piece all these different TV spots and trailers together. You don’t even have to pay the money to go to the movie theater!

Eric: Right, and here’s why. Here’s why you can do that. The only thing that they haven’t released in TV spots are the transitory, dead silence moments where characters are walking from one place to another or the camera’s, you know, moving from one thing to another. Those are the only things that you’ll need to – I mean, that’s worth the price of a movie ticket, to see those intermediary scenes. But if you’re the kind of moviegoer that just wants the dialogue, all the dialogue that’s in the film is in these TV spots. Absolutely, 100 percent.

Andrew: I completely disagree with that. Most of the TV spots have a lot of the same clips. They share a lot of the same clips. I think the TV spots were very good in that they didn’t show too much, because they are so repetitive. They are – and they picked out some pretty funny moments. I guess there was a nice balance of funny and dark stuff. We got a couple new looks at Dobby, which was really nice. We got – we do have a lot of “Seven Potters” footage. I will say that.

Eric: Yeah, I mean that’s my point too – like, “a couple of shots of Dobby?” Well, how many shots do you think there are in the film of Dobby?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah…

Eric: I think I wrote down months and months ago when we saw the film, “not much of Dobby.” It’s more than there has been for sure, but you look at a couple different camera angles and that’s all that Dobby’s in the film. And the “Seven Potters” especially. That’s the TV spot I watched with Dan Radcliffe in a bra as Fleur, or whatever. Like, I can’t…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: …believe that they showed that! That’s ridiculous, because it’s such a good thing to see in the movie. They just shouldn’t have revealed that. Now you can just go on YouTube and search it now and see it. It detracts from the movie experience.

Andrew: Is that what inspired you to dress up as a woman for Halloween?

Eric: Yeah, I saw Dan do it and said I could do it better. And then I did.

Andrew: You and him do musicals; you dress up as women together; you do everything together!

Eric: We’re going to do a one-man play – actually, a two-man play. But we’re going to be the opposites – Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Look for that on the West End in 2012.

Andrew: Doesn’t sound appealing to me.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Micah, what else is going on in the news?

News: Deathly Hallows Too Funny?

Micah: Well, I wanted to touch on something that you guys said, which was the humorous side of it. Do you think they’re painting this film as being a little bit too funny? They had a lot of comedy in Half-Blood Prince, but with Deathly Hallows: Part I, I think this is supposed to be a little bit more serious. And we’ve seen a number of different bits of comedy. You mentioned the “Seven Potters”; there’s a couple lines from Mad-Eye Moody; there’s a couple lines from Dobby; there’s a couple lines from George. So, is it a little bit too funny? This is supposed to be the finale of the films. It’s supposed to be the darkest film yet, as we progress. That’s always the line that we hear. You think maybe they were afraid if they didn’t show a little bit of the lighter side people might not be as interested? Maybe not the average Harry Potter fan or the average movie-goer wouldn’t be interested as much?

Andrew: I think so. Because that’s what they do! If you see any movie trailer or any commercial, there’s always some funny bits. Usually if it’s a comedy film, but for a fantasy film like Harry Potter they try to bring the ‘lols’. Eric, would you say the film brings some ‘lols’? Other than the “Seven Potters” stuff, I mean, that seems pretty apparent.

Eric: Wait, the film or the trailer?

Andrew: No, the film overall. Since you have seen it.

Eric: No. I’m…

Andrew: It doesn’t bring the ‘lols’?

Eric: It doesn’t bring the ‘lols’. Okay, there are very few scenes such as when the trio transforms into the Ministry officials. That sort of thing is funny. But I’m actually surprised that they found this many humorous moments, dialogue and all of that, for these TV spots. Because the film is not funny. It’s not as funny as the past films have been, and I like it for that reason. But, I think it has to do with what the audience expects, because you can’t make this trailer with this exciting music if there’s like a dramatic scene. And very few trailers, even of drama films, are going to show just drama scenes. They’re going to show heart-warming things of drama, and relationships and characters interacting because that’s what trailers do.

Andrew: Do the TV spots make you want to see the film?

[Prolonged silence]

Micah: Well, I…

Eric: They make me feel like I…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: That’s a hard – that’s a hard question.

Eric: They make me feel like I’ve seen it.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Although I also have seen it, so I can’t answer that. [laughs]

Andrew: Let’s move on…

Micah: Okay.

Andrew: I mean – this happens with every film.

Eric: But I agree with that, Micah.

Micah: Okay.

Eric: I agree with everything you said.

Micah: Well, thank you, Eric. But…

Andrew: Micah’s never satisfied.

Micah: [laughs] No, I am! Look, I’m playing devil’s advocate here.

Andrew: If there’s too little, we hear the complaints! If there’s too much, we hear the complaints!

Micah: At least there’s not a million pictures this time, okay? They’ve limited that.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah. Wow, they’re doing something right.

Andrew: Before we move on, we’d like to remind everyone that this podcast is brought to you by, the internet’s leading provider of audiobooks, with more than 75,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature, and featuring audio versions of many New York Times bestsellers. For listeners of MuggleCast, Audible is offering a free audiobook to give you a chance to try out their service. One audiobook to consider is The Hunger Games, a thrilling young adult novel that’s actually part of a great trilogy. Nearly all the hosts of MuggleCast have read it and we all really, highly recommend it. So for a free audiobook of your choice, such as The Hunger Games, go to That’s

News: Deathly Hallows Soundtrack Samples

Micah: Well, we did get some samples from the Deathly Hallows: Part I soundtrack, and, Andrew I know you have some of those cued up. We wanted to talk about this. They were released on –

Eric:, yeah.


Micah: “Co,” sorry, left out the “co.” But you could always go to MuggleNet, just click the link.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: That wasn’t a shameless plug or anything.

Eric: [laughs] If you’re URL-impaired.

Micah: First of all, I guess let’s play them, and then we’ll kind of give our overall thoughts.

Andrew: Well – okay, so we’ll – which ones do you want to listen to?

Eric: Well, what are the ones that you said…

Andrew: And we don’t have to play them all.

Eric: Okay, in the news post on MuggleNet, you were like, “We strongly think that these few…

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Eric: …are of [laughs] importance.”

Andrew: Okay, well, here’s one. This is “Farewell to Dobby.” This is, of course…

[Eric groans]

Andrew: …when Dobby dies, you’ll be hearing this.

[“Farewell to Dobby” plays]

Andrew: It’s very sad.

[“Farewell to Dobby” continues]

Andrew: Makes me want to cry. So, it’s very slow. I think it’s very – it’ll be very moving when that’s matched up to when Harry buries…

Eric: Well, play – compare that to “Dobby”- just the one titled “Dobby.” Can you play that?

Andrew: Okay. And here’s “Dobby,” when he’s alive. This is what it’ll sound like.

[“Dobby” plays]

Andrew: It’s kind of – what’s the word?

Eric: Hooper-ish?

Andrew: Quirky?

Micah: Bouncy? [laughs]

Andrew: Bouncy. I think it fits Dobby well. Do you guys – would you guys agree?

Eric: Yeah.

[“Dobby” continues]

Eric: I love this. This is going to be – I think this is – the standout new theme is going to be “Dobby.”

Andrew: Yeah. I like it. I like it. Some others I thought were good – “Snape to Malfoy Manor.” This is very – this is a very large, very large sound.

[“Snape to Malfoy Manor” plays]

Andrew: [laughs] It’s got an epic and eerie feel to it.

[“Snape to Malfoy Manor” plays]

Andrew: Do you guys like that one?

Micah: Yeah. Is that – that’s at the beginning of the movie too?

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: It sounds like it’s at the beginning. You get that feeling.

Andrew: Well, there is one track before it.

Micah: Oh, is there?

Andrew: The one track before it is “Oblivion.”

Eric: Yeah, I don’t think these are in order, though. Like –

Andrew: No, they are.

Eric: They’re in a sense of order but track 18 is “Hermione’s Parents.” And you know, that’s at the beginning of the film.

Andrew: Oh, that’s true. Well, maybe…

Eric: So…

Andrew: Well, maybe “Obliviate” is at the beginning and Hermione obliviates her parent’s minds right?

Eric: Oh, right. Right. Right. Right. So, I wonder…

Andrew: So that’s where that fits in right?

Eric: I wonder where the deal is –

Andrew: Maybe Hermione’s – “Hermione’s Parents” – the song “Hermione’s Parents,” is when Hermione’s talking about her parents. [laughs]

Eric: [laughs] I guess.

Andrew: Here – how about we have two “Ron” ones. This first one is “Ron Leaves.”

[“Ron Leaves” plays]

Andrew: It’s actually more sad than when Dobby dies I think.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

[“Ron Leaves” continues]

Andrew: This must be what’s going on in Hermione’s head.

[Eric laughs]

[“Ron Leaves” continues]

[Andrew laughs]

[“Ron Leaves” continues]

Andrew: It’s actually one of the saddest things I ever heard. And then there’s “Ron’s Speech,” later on.

[“Ron’s Speech” plays]

Andrew: Sort of inspiring. Sort of like, “Oh okay. Things will get better.”

[“Ron’s Speech” continues]

Andrew: I would assume it’s sort of a Part Two to “Ron Leaves.” Because “Ron’s Speech” would be when he returns of course.

Eric: Oh…

Andrew: And then…

Eric: Play “The Deathly…”

Micah: How about “Destroying the Locket”?

Andrew: “Destroying the Locket.” Okay. This is right before “Ron’s Speech.”

[“Destroying the Locket” plays]

Andrew: This must be when he’s thinking of doing it or something? That’s okay. Some people were saying in the MuggleNet comments that these samples – the soundtrack overall, it doesn’t have as whimsical of a feel. I guess you would say. Compared to the other Harry Potter films. Especially John Williams’ work.

Eric: Mhm.

Micah: Yeah, well, that’s interesting. That’s what the first tweet there says, from peculiarways:

“I’m not hearing the John Williams original themes that Desplat said he would incorporate. Probably to early to say.”

This is a darker film.

Eric: Yeah. You’re not going to…

Micah: This is it. This is the final battle, essentially, this final piece of the franchise. It’s not supposed to be happy-go-lucky, whimsical. It’s supposed to be dark.

Eric: I listened to the first ten or so samples of this score and one of the things that struck me immediately was the use of the instruments. It just seems like Desplat really commands the use of instruments to create different emotions, but what also struck me was that none of the instruments stood out as being a character. Like John Williams’ film, the score is a character. And things on screen, such as owls landing on Privet Drive are sort of the background to what is playing as far as music goes. Well, now we’ve progressed where these movies are actually films – cinematic pieces of art and the music is simply supplementing what is actually going on in the scene. I think it’s just an evolution. It doesn’t – it’s way too early to say, “Oh, he didn’t incorporate any John Williams like he said he would.” That’s a little too early, I feel, because Desplat – I believe Desplat when he said he really wanted to get back to basics.

Micah: And “Hedwig’s Theme” will be in there, but it doesn’t make sense to have a sample of that because we’ve all heard it a million times over already anyway.

Andrew: Yeah, and these are 30-second samples. There’s a lot more to each of these songs.

Micah: Oh, of course.

Andrew: I mean, some of these songs are up to six minutes long. The final track is “The Elder Wand,” which, of course, would suggest what we’ve already been reporting – that the movie will be split when Voldemort takes control of the Elder Wand. So, just to wrap up this news bit, let’s listen to “The Elder Wand.”

[“The Elder Wand” plays]

Eric: This is the music that…

Andrew: I feel like I’m…

Eric: Yeah, what?

Andrew: I feel like this is out of Survivor, the reality show.

Eric: [laughs] This is where everybody in the audience is wondering why Dumbledore’s grave/tombstone came from Ikea.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: Like, “But isn’t that…? Eh. How’s it…? Okay.”

[“The Elder Wand” ends]

Andrew: So, that was the little sample.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: It’s only – the entire song, “The Elder Wand,” is a minute and a half.

Eric: That was a third of it right there.

Andrew: Yeah!

Eric: Can you play – I’m sorry. I know you said that was the last one, but can you play the one called “The Deathly Hallows”? I’m pretty sure that’s going to be playing during the “Three Brothers” scene.

Andrew: Absolutely. MuggleCast Live! Coming up next, “The Deathly Hollows!”

[“The Deathly Hallows” plays]

Eric: Hallows! You still can’t say it right.

Andrew: Hallows.

Eric: Backstory, the third brother…

[“The Deathly Hallows” ends]

Micah: I could definitely see Hermione doing a voice over to that. Reading The Tale of the Three Brothers.

Eric: The third brother greeted Death as an old friend and together they crossed into the abyss.

Micah: All right, just a couple more tweets. Because we did ask people, with this limited bit of music, to rate Alexandre Desplat. crestsofwaves said:

“I rate Desplat an eight point five for being consistent, but imaginative.”

jimmyqex says: “On Desplat: The excitement and magic in “Sky Battle” is great. The hopeful uncertainty of “The Burrow” is wondrous. “Dobby” equals fun, nine out of ten.”

And WhatTheGrace: “I rated Desplat nine out of ten. He is the reason why I started listening to movie scores, after “New Moon” and “Benjamin Button,” the rest was history.”

Andrew: Yeah, his scores are good. One other one he did recently was Fantastic Mr. Fox. I think that is the name of it.

Eric: Oh yeah.

Andrew: And that one is really good. I’ve haven’t seen the movie. Actually, I have it waiting for me. But, I’ve heard some samples from the soundtrack and it’s good. He really cares, I think he’s a good composer. So, look forward to seeing his score. What else is going on in the news, Micah?

News: Deathly Hallows Run Time

Micah: All right, Eric alluded to this before, and we do have a run time for the film. It’s a little bit conflicting, depending on where you read it. IMAX was reporting, I think it was…

Andrew: 1:47.

Micah: 1:47, and then the BBFC was reporting right around 1:45. So, it’s not that drastic of a difference…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: The movie is going to be somewhere in that range…

Eric: The…

Micah: But, regardless it does make it the third shortest film. Whether it’s 1:45 or 1:47, or somewhere in between, it is the third shortest film, to date.

Eric: The…

Andrew: I wrote the headline like that to get people talking…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Because…

Micah: You’re a smart business man, Andrew.

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: With the final film. Well maybe – come to think of it I take that back. I was going to say that the final film needs to be the longest. But, really it doesn’t. I mean, there’s no point really to make it the longest. I was just, sort of, saying that just to start. [laughs]

Eric: You’re stirring [bleep] up. Ok, so I read that, on MuggleNet, and I was like, ok a hundred forty-seven minutes that sounds amazing. Then, you said it’s the third shortest film ever. And then I was second guessing my initial appraisal of it…

[Micah laughs]

Eric: I was like wait a minute it is the third shortest. Now how do I feel about it? Oh crap, oh Andrew got me thinking.

Micah: So it puts it just shy of two-and-a-half hours.

Eric: But that’s two-and-a-half hours.

Andrew: It’s two-and-a-half hours, that’s a long time.

MuggleCast 212 Transcript (continued)

News: Deathly Hallows Rating

Micah: That’s not terrible, that’s pretty long. I think we should just be happy with it and move on and expect that Part II will be longer. I mean I would hope that with everything that they have to do, the loose ends they have to tie up that we were promised that a majority of that film is going to be the battle that we should just be happy with this and I’m sure it will be fine. This next news item, I don’t really know much about. It says the MPAA, the Motion Pictures Association of America, added “sensuality” as to why the movie here in the United States received a PG-13 rating and supposedly our site made a big deal about this, Andrew?

Andrew: Well you know lately I’ve been in the mood to write some link bait news posts. No, I’m kidding, the thing is, it was interesting because we’ve talked a lot about the MPAA here on MuggleCast. One of our listeners even recommended that I watch a documentary on the MPAA.

Eric: This Film Is Not Yet Rated?

Andrew: Right, great documentary, it really exposes them. But anyway, they issued the PG-13 rating a couple of weeks ago and then just the other day they revised their rating. They added that the film includes a moment of brief sensuality and is it that big of a deal?

Eric: No. This is the text that you see at the bottom of the green screen in the trailer, before the trailer begins. This is what you see, “rated PG-13 for…”

Andrew: Actually technically, no, that’s the rating for the trailer itself, not the film. You see that at the end. I’m sorry.

Eric: Oh, well…

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, fun to read.

Eric: I still feel as though this text will not appear anywhere significant and the changing of this text, correct me if I’m wrong, the changing of this text is almost to avoid some sort of lawsuit. I don’t understand why it was changed and I don’t understand…

Andrew: Yeah it’s just weird that they added it two weeks after the fact. Why didn’t they catch this the first time around?

Micah: I think the British are just so much better. They don’t sugarcoat anything. They give it to you right as it is. They rated the film a 12A for their own reasons and of course that’s the PG-13 equivalent.

Andrew: They didn’t mention sensuality.

Micah: Yeah, sensuality, that’s a bunch of fluff as far as I’m concerned.

Eric: Their description of Deathly Hallows, the BBFC, is even worse. It says “moderate fantasy violence and threat”. Moderate? What is “extreme fantasy violence and threat” sound like?

Micah: But they’re British. Eric, they’re British. They have to make it sound nice, you know? That’s what they do.

Eric: [in a terrible English accent] It’s moderate!

Andrew: All right.

Eric: [accent] Little trepidation on the fantasy violence.

Micah: Look, when you have a snake eat somebody within the first ten minutes of the film, I think it should be rated at least PG-13. That’s my own take on it.

Eric: Or – or 12A, as it were.

News: 2010 Podcast Awards

Andrew: And the final piece of news today, which is actually more of an announcement about something coming up. The 2010 Podcast Awards are quickly approaching. If you’ve been a long-time listener of the show, you know we try to get nominated in the Podcast Awards every year and for the years we’ve tried, we have and I think for each year that we’ve been nominated, we’ve also won thanks to the amazing support of you, the listener. So the 2010 Podcast Awards are coming up. Nominations will be opening on November 7th and this year we are trying to run in the “People’s Choice” as well as the “Entertainment” category. So there’s two categories we want to compete in this year. “People’s Choice” and “Entertainment.” So again the – the period for nominations will be opening on November 7th. We will post details on as well as on our Twitter and Facebook so you know exactly how to help us out. We hope you can help us. We’d love to win this year. It’s a perfect time for us to compete in the Podcast Awards considering that the movie is just coming out, so keep an eye out for details about that soon and we’d really appreciate your support. The “People’s Choice” award is the – the big award.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s the top gun.

Eric: It’s the big award. We really try and push this voting and nomination not only because we’ve been successful in the past, everybody has really come together. But even five years down the road, you know, MuggleCast celebrated its fifth birthday just a few months ago, and you know, we’re still producing what I know I feel is a quality show and you know, I know the three of us contribute to it greatly and still feel as though it’s relevant.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: And, you know, certainly one of the best things a listener can do for us if they feel the same is to support us at these Podcast Awards. You know, which are the creme de la creme or the big kahuna actually.

Micah: Yeah, and I think it’s been overall, like Eric said, it’s been a big year for us, you know, crossing that threshold of five years, 200 episodes, getting David Heyman and talking to him as well as Warwick Davis, he was also on the show this year so – obviously none of this could be done without the support of everybody out there who listens so, as Eric mentioned, you know, kind of the way you can give back to us is by helping us out here and going out to vote.

Eric: So, so…

Andrew: So…

Eric: Everybody who ever sent in a Chicken Soup, we have your name and your city so if you don’t vote for us we will [laughs] we will find you.

Andrew: So that’s it for news. Later on in the show we’re going to be, of course, reading your e-mails and we’re also going to do Dueling Club: Ghost Edition in honor of Halloween and also, recently, we asked on our Twitter if anyone’s dressing up for Halloween in a Harry Potter costume, besides Eric, and we got some of your responses so we’ll be reading those, too. But, for now, Chapter-By-Chapter. This week we’re looking at Chapter 16 through 18 of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Micah’s kicking us off with Chapter 16, “The Goblet of Fire,” the title of the book.

Chapter-by-Chapter: “The Goblet of Fire”

Micah: How appropriate.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: So, when we last left off, the students from Beauxbatons and Durmstrang had arrived. And the chapter begins with kind of a funny exchange between Ron and Hermione over Viktor Krum. And then they get into it a little bit when the Veela girl from Beauxbatons comes over and asks Ron for the French Bouillabaisse. And you can see a little bit of tension developing here. Do you guys notice that? And Ron clearly – he’s enamored by Viktor Krum, but he’s very much enamored, even more so, by who we later find out is Fleur Delacour.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. Ron is a little uncertain in who he likes to fangirl more.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Teenage love.

Eric: But I think Viktor Krum – it’s interesting because in these next few chapters we see a lot more Viktor Krum – or we see a fair amount of Viktor Krum. And he’s described very often as being sulky, like in a corner and kind of a loner. And it’s interesting that he has all of this attention, especially from guys like Ron, who are very rarely passionate about anything other than themselves. And he’s got this hard-core dedication as being, you know, this distinction as being a great Quidditch player. So it’s kind of interesting to see him act in these moments.

Micah: Yeah, and you can definitely see the jealousy start to develop a little bit on the part of Hermione, especially when Ron suggests that the girl must be part Veela, because he just can’t seem to take his eyes off her, no matter what he does.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah.

Micah: Now, an interesting question here: does it say something when these two schools arrive that Durmstrang ends up sitting with Slytherin and Beauxbatons ends up sitting with Ravenclaw?

Eric: Hm.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Well…

Micah: I mean…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Durmstrang obviously is very heavily involved in the Dark Arts, and they sit with a house that’s associated with Tom Riddle and Voldemort. And Beauxbatons seems to find something about Ravenclaw that they like. You know, they’re sort of the more intelligent, intellectual group, and that seems to be where they go to.

Eric: Yeah, I think if the – let’s play the opposite here. I mean, if Durmstrang sat with Hufflepuff, you know, there might be a few Hufflepuffs…

Andrew: They wouldn’t mix.

Eric: Yeah, there might be a few Hufflepuffs that wouldn’t leave the table, or leave the Great Hall that night. You know, target practice. I don’t know what the Durmstrang kids do. But yeah, I think the – considering that some of Beauxbatons, or at least Fleur Delacour, are actually Veela, as Micah just said, maybe it’s just the Ravenclaws are more proper and can control themselves a little bit better. You know, Ravenclaws being intellectual, have more self control.

Andrew: It could also maybe be that the head of the house invites the students to sit at their table, but I agree – there’s definitely some connection there.

Micah: Well, Ron was very strongly voicing his opinion for Viktor Krum to come sit over at the Gryffindor table. And you’d think, you know, Potter being over there, that that would be a lure for either of those two schools to want to sit there. But…

Andrew: Well, yeah, and we’ll…

Micah: …doesn’t happen.

Andrew: …talk about that more in a little bit. But the fame thing within the schools is kind of interesting because Viktor is sort of being treated by Ron as others do towards Harry – but Viktor has more of a celebrity to him, of course because of the World Cup, so…

Eric: You know what I…

Andrew: I…

Eric: …just thought of?

Andrew: I don’t know about that. What?

Eric: I just solved it. Viktor Krum – Durmstrang’s associated with Slytherins, and Beauxbatons with the Ravenclaws, because together then the four champions also make up the four Hogwarts houses. Because Hufflepuff has their Cedric Diggory, so no one’s, you know, the other two schools don’t sit with them. And Gryffindor has Harry Potter, so…

Andrew: Hmm. That’s interesting.

Eric: It’s kind of foreshadowing where the champions, or the other schools are sitting with the houses that don’t – and won’t – have champions this year.

Andrew: Oh, that is interesting. I wonder if that was planned. But I still agree with Micah’s point, the Beauxbaton/Ravenclaw and Slytherin/Durmstrang connections.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Both valid points.

Micah: And also…

Andrew: Alright, so…

Micah: So Karkaroff and Snape are both former Death Eaters, I don’t know if that has anything to do with it.

Eric: Karkaroff and Malfoy’s father and all sorts of…

Andrew: Well, that’s sort of my point, which is Snape knows Karkaroff so he could invite him, too…

Micah: Oh, okay.

Andrew: …for his students to stay at the table.

Micah: So Dumbledore introduces Barty Crouch Sr., and Ludo Bagman – who joined the table up in the front of the hall – and he reveals the Goblet of Fire, he explains the guidelines and how you can go about entering. And, you know, I’m wondering why even have such strict guidelines for those that are entering. You know, isn’t it dangerous regardless to expose 17 year olds to such binding magical contracts? I mean, Dumbledore explicitly says you know, when you put your name in the Goblet of Fire, it creates a binding magical contract. And, isn’t this a little bit of a risk for somebody, no matter what age they are? I mean, we’re talking about students here. Why put them in such harm?

Andrew: Well, that’s the thrill of the Quidditch World Cup, but I think it’s sort of mentioned a little later on that…

Eric: You mean the Triwizard Tournament?

Andrew: Sorry, yeah. [laughs] The Triwizard Tournament. That’s the thrill of it is that there is danger to this and it tests the wizard or witch’s true abilities…

Eric: Mhm.

Andrew: And their strengths so – I will say, though, I think there should have been more warning about, look, if you put your name in this, first of all – and they did warn you are committed to it – but second of all, this stuff really is dangerous. We’re not kidding around here, this is not…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …some class lesson.

Eric: They really should have made it so other people couldn’t put other people’s name in the Goblet of Fire, too, but I guess then we wouldn’t have a book.

Micah: Yeah, well, it’s interesting, though – and we’ll talk about this later on, I think, in the next chapter, or the one after that; I don’t remember which one – but Ludo Bagman actually says that there wasn’t an age restriction prior to this…

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: So, you know, we can talk about that a little bit once it comes up.

Eric: Well, it’s interesting to compare because the magic of the Goblet of Fire has the ability to read a name that you put in and assess that person’s criteria, as whether they’re fit to be a school champion. So, based on their name on a slip of paper, it can judge their characteristics, their personality. That’s the…

Micah: Right.

Eric: …magic of the Goblet. So, Micah, what you just said, with the age restriction being a very new thing, it would be interesting to think that, a long time ago, someone who was younger, like a thirteen year old, could actually be chosen as a school champion along with a seventeen or an eighteen year old student.

Micah: Now, Fred and George jokingly ask Harry if he’ll enter, and Harry wondered how angry Dumbledore would be if someone younger than seventeen did find a way to get over the age line, and my comment was, “Don’t worry, Harry, you’ll find out soon enough.”

Andrew: [laughs] Mike Newell has solved this problem. Mike Newell along with Michael Gambon and the lovely folks at Warner Bros. Oh, man.

Micah: So, after the introduction of the Goblet of Fire they have their feast and as they are vacating the Great Hall, Karkaroff stops to stare at Harry. It takes him a couple seconds to realize who he is, but then Mad-Eye Moody comes along and there’s this interesting interaction that takes place between the two. And we know Karkaroff is in a state of shock, because he’s face to face with whom he believes to be Moody the Auror, but reading this for the first time, this should be a tip to Karkaroff’s dark past.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Because, I mean, I understand Moody is not the best looking person in the world…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: So, naturally people might have that kind of reaction upon seeing him, but the way that they say that Karkaroff goes white in the face, or he goes pale in the face, it’s very clear that there’s past history between these two.

Andrew: Definitely.

Micah: And I know last show, Andrew, you mentioned, well, hopefully we see more of these types of moments, sort of these foreshadowing moments, throughout the course of the book. Now Moody, a.k.a. Barty Crouch Jr., has his magical eye fixed upon Karkaroff’s back, a look of intense dislike upon his mutilated face, because he despises Karkaroff, who’s a former Death Eater. And – so again it’s sort of that split…

Eric: Meaning, Yeah.

Micah: …perspective from Moody / Barty Crouch Jr. You could either read it that Moody has his eye fixed upon Karkaroff because he’s a former Death Eater and they have a past history together, or because it’s Barty Crouch Jr., who really hates this guy who has been a turncoat and tried to really make his past as a Death Eater invisible at this point.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: You know what I’m saying?

Andrew: Yeah, I mean the real answer is that the latter – it’s the latter.

Micah: It’s Barty Crouch. Yeah.

Andrew: Right, but…

Micah: And he’s pissed at Karkaroff for what he’s done, leaving Voldemort and basically disowning the whole Death Eater thing and trying to start over by being this Head of or Headmaster at Durmstrang.

Andrew: Right. Of course the reader perspective is the first one – Moody. So – or why Moody’s upset. So it’s a cool double meaning.

Micah: Yeah, absolutely. And something you wouldn’t catch unless – at least I didn’t catch it.

Andrew: You’d have to read it the second time.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, of course this is not the second time we’re reading this book.

Eric: No, no! Come on. Please.

Micah: We’ve all read it hundreds of times. [laughs]

Andrew: Speak for yourselves.

Micah: It’s only an eight hundred page novel. I mean…

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: So the next day the trio spend visiting Hagrid, and they get into a discussion about S.P.E.W. Andrew, there you go. I won’t say the other word. And is it odd that Hagrid can really understand how house elves operate better than Hermione?

Eric: No. He…

Andrew: I don’t think…

Eric: No.

Andrew: Hermione – I think Hermione understands it. She just doesn’t – she just won’t accept it. It’s not – it’s more about personal opinion on slavery versus actual knowledge.

Eric: Hermione’s got this…

Andrew: You know what I mean?

Eric: Yeah. Hermione has this inflated idea of what the house elves – not are capable of – but just of their perspective. Hagrid hangs around with loser magical beings all the time. And so it’s not unusual that he can sympathize or at least put off this idea that he knows what they truly feel like. He hangs out with Aragog and all the creatures in the forest – Centaurs. Most people don’t get along with. So the fact that he’s lecturing Hermione on House Elves not wanting sick leaves and pension, that sort of thing as Nick had said earlier, I think it’s fitting. And I think also that Hagrid cares about Hermione, and he doesn’t want her getting too stressed out, involved in this cause that he feels is kind of a moot point or kind of not worth it, for good reasons.

Micah: Right, it’s interesting to hear him say that they’re happy with what they do and when he refers to Dobby as being, “an odd one in every lot.”

[Eric laughs]

Micah: He’s sort of like – you get that weirdo in every group. For Hagrid to be saying that is a little bit comical and hypocritical but it just seems like – everybody in the wizarding world that is human seems to think that this is what House Elves are like and this is how their lives have always been and will continue to be.

Eric: Well, and unfortunately we do have the two case studies that have the worst masters. I mean, Dobby had the Malfoy’s as his master and Winky has this troubled Crouch family as her master. So – and Barty Crouch Sr. is very near the end of his life, very manic, not quite stable as a master so when Jo is playing these race questions to us about what House Elves deserve and the kind of treatment that they get – it’s very meant to resonate because we have these examples of House Elves being oppressed and the question she’s trying to ask us is Hogwarts – and this is what Hermione is concerned with – is Hogwarts oppressing this race of House Elves?

Micah: Yeah, are they contributing to a larger problem. Yeah, absolutely. And so we finally get to Halloween evening and the Goblet of Fire selection and as we all know the Durmstrang champion is Viktor Krum, the Beauxbatons champion is Fleur Delacour and the Hogwarts champion is Cedric Diggory and then of course the fourth champion ends up being Harry Potter. So – that’s really all I have for this chapter. There is – I don’t really think there’s much more to discuss. I mean, there’s more fact in this chapter than topics to really go into.

Andrew: You don’t need to make excuses.

Eric: Yeah, yeah.

Micah: Sorry.

Eric: That was a good – that was a weighty discussion.

Andrew: One thing we should talk about as we go in to this next chapter is why Cedric was chosen? Because during Micah’s chapter we get the explanation that the Goblet will select based on skills and such, why was Cedric chosen? I mean Krum makes sense. Fleur for an all girl school…

Micah: Well, it’s not all girls.

Eric: It’s not all girls!

Andrew: Well…

Eric: It is in the movie, that’s the difference. The movie…

Micah: Yeah, it’s not in the book.

Eric: …portrays Beauxbatons as the all-girls school…

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: …but in the book it is very much not.

Andrew: Well, putting them two aside, what is – why Cedric? I mean, then again to be fair who else really in the school stands out? I don’t think any characters especially…

Eric: That’s a good question.

Andrew: I don’t think any characters at this point especially in the series would really…

Micah: It was to give Hufflepuff their one moment, really, in the series, aside probably from the final battle. I think if you look at it they’re just irrelevant, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. We’ll get hundreds of frickin’ e-mails now about how…

Eric: Are you kidding, I called House Elves a ‘loser-race’.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Eric: I don’t think you’ll get many more e-mails about that.

Micah: But I think that from a writing stand-point, the way that they’re portrayed is just that they’re not as relevant to the story, and they’re not as relevant – really if you were attending Hogwarts they’re sort of the overlooked house, and this was that one opportunity for them to be able to shine, and to have somebody represent them.

Eric: It’s funny you should mention that because there is this whole paragraph devoted to Hufflepuffs in the next chapter. But I think Cedric Diggory represents – obviously he represents the qualities of his house, and because at this point – up to this point in the books it hadn’t been clear what Hufflepuff was really about. I feel like Jo devoted a portion of this book, especially with the character of Cedric Diggory, to showing what kind of traits – like loyalty, I believe the Sorting Hat says regarding Hufflepuff – what exactly Hufflepuff had. So Cedric Diggory very much is the representation of Hufflepuff. But it shows as well – the fact that the Goblet of Fire chose him shows that there is some sort of quantifiable trait that goes into becoming a champion that Hufflepuff has. It doesn’t rule them out of the coolest people on Earth list. It tries to give them a little boost-up.

Andrew: Yeah, and when you look at what Cedric has done, other than being a Quidditch player and also being a prefect there wasn’t really anything stand-out. But then again, other than Harry Potter, I don’t know if there are many stand-out superstar people in Hogwarts.

Micah: Right, I think…

Eric: You know what, Cedric is a good student! Let’s not…

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Eric: Let’s not forget he’s probably good at academics, and that counts for something. [laughs]

Micah: Yeah, I think the other side of it though too is he’s popular. He’s the one person that you could put Harry Potter against that is going to have the school turn on him, if that makes sense.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Here’s somebody who’s not just liked by Hufflepuff, he’s really liked by all four houses. And if you take somebody like that and then have the counter be Harry people are going to be in favor of Cedric, because it seems like Harry gets all the glory, let’s face it.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, coming up next week we are going to have an exclusive interview with the Goblet of Fire…

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: …whose going to tell us why he or she…

Eric: Are you kidding?

Andrew: …selected…

Eric: This is how it’s going to go. It’s going to be like a French man in a movie with a cigarette. He’s like, “Yes. Well, I get their names. And I just – ” No, wow! That derailed totally.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: I feel like….

Andrew: Well, then…

Eric: I feel like – I’m just going to admit that was partially Mr. Burns, “Yes and not quite.” But he’s going to be like, “Yes, well, I get their names and I search them up on Facebook. Oh, that Cedric Diggory, he just has this incredible profile picture. These eyes, just like Matt Britton’s eyes, they are just like beautiful and I just had to chose him because his Facebook – ” It’d be something like that. So…

Chapter-by-Chapter: “The Four Champions”

Andrew: Well, all right. So, let’s move on now to Chapter 17, “The Four Champions.” Harry and everyone in the room are in shock that his name came out of the Goblet of Fire, of course, and the only person who seemed to be fascinated, really excited by it was Ludo Bagman. And Micah, you’re wondering why was it that the age restriction was never in place before and why add it now?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I mean…

Micah: Well, yeah. This kind of fits in here because this is where all the discussion starts between the Heads of the different schools, and Barty Crouch Sr., and Ludo Bagman. So Bagman does mention, as we talked about in the last chapter, that there wasn’t an age restriction prior to this point. So the question is, why now? Why decide to implement an age restriction. One would think that it would be to prevent Harry from getting into the Triwizard Tournament. So it kind of backfires.

Andrew: But also it’s…

Eric: But specifically Harry…

Andrew: But I also think it’s just because it’s dangerous. And they’ve realized we do need to put a restriction on it.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Because when – when say a thirteen year old get’s in there would probably be a lot of out lash in the wizarding world. Lot of people saying why would someone so young be able to fight even though the Goblet of Fire selects it based on…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: …a good match for it. So theoretically the Goblet of Fire no matter what age would select someone based on if the Goblet thought it could…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …the person could compete successfully.

Eric: Let’s not forget these people had the school Governors to answer to and if you want to say we’re bringing back this ancient tournament that hasn’t been held in hundreds of years you are going to have some new restrictions because there’s a reason that the Triwizard Tournament hasn’t been held in hundreds of years. It’s dangerous, archaic even, like old barbaric torture chambers. That sort of thing.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: And I feel the age restriction was just one of those things where if they ever had to take it to the Hogwarts school Governors, which realistically I’m sure they would, either that’s the kind of thing that sugar coats it – that makes it seem less dangerous this time around.

Andrew: So…

Micah: What about – sorry I don’t mean to cut you off but we talked a lot about this on the last Episode with the Unforgivable Curses but how would you be able to enter this tournament without parents’ permission?

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, well now with the age limit I mean…

Eric: If you’re seventeen…

Andrew: …technically you’re of age.

Eric: Yeah, you’re of age.

Andrew: So, yeah.

Micah: Yeah, that’s true.

Andrew: So moving along, Madame Maxime and Karkaroff express their disapproval that Harry was selected. But the way Jo describes Karkaroff’s actions was interesting. I think it’s sort of suggests that he was to blame here. She wrote,

“He was wearing a steely smile. His blue eyes were like chips of ice. He gave a short and nasty laugh.”

Is this possibly a hint at that he was to blame? I mean it’s not conclusive, but it was interesting. He seemed a little too pleased with it. I mean one could say he was pleased because this meant he could pick a fight with Dumbledore and possibly get his way and get another student selected to compete.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: But I think more likely he was pleased his plan worked and…

Micah: I think it’s kind of a red herring. You’re supposed to believe – because they do the same thing in the movie where they have Karkaroff go into the room with the Goblet of Fire and then he slowly closes the doors as he exits.

Eric: Yeah

Andrew: Right.

Micah: And I think you’re supposed to believe that he’s the one who put Harry’s name in the Goblet of Fire because he’s kind of one of those new characters that you don’t know about and usually that’s the one that ends up being the trouble maker. But I think it’s just kind of a misleading description of – maybe he’s just demented, I don’t know.

Andrew: Well, it was – I think I agree it was a red herring. And definitely the first time you read that you probably could miss it unless you’re looking for clues. So the group continues discussing with Maxime and Karkaroff reinforcing their disapproval when Moody comes in. And Moody begins suggesting it was a powerful wizard who is to blame for this, of course hinting that it was Karkaroff, but Karkaroff of course has none of it. Bagman on the other hand is very excited by the new twist. He was very excited that there was going to be this fun new element to the game with four people. So why was he so excited? I mean it’s kind of cruel. He should – was he excited because it would make headlines…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: …there was a fourth player and the person was underage and was Harry Potter. I mean I guess from a press standpoint it was gold.

Micah: Oh, yeah, this is great. And it’s a money maker for him. You know he’s going to go out and bet on the tournament.

Eric: That’s true.

Micah: I’d bet on Harry Potter.

Eric: Wait, would you though?

Micah: Wouldn’t you?

Eric: Would you? I mean…

Micah: Probably, I mean, he’s got a good enough track record, you look at the past three books. I mean, I’d bet on him winning.

Eric: I feel like, if you just compare him to Krum, you’ve got this international Quidditch star, and some kid who plays Quidditch on the weekends for his school – for his high school.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: It’s kind of a big difference.

Micah: Yeah, no, I mean, I agree, but this also sets up the plot point that Ludo Bagman is possibly hoping to win back enough money to pay off Fred and George, whom he owes a large sum of money to.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: So I think that’s part of the reason why he might be happy as well, and I don’t know though, as far as betting goes you bring up a good point. I mean, there’s probably a number of different reasons to bet money on any of them.

Andrew: Eric, I think you added this next point. You’re wondering why Dumbledore did not comment when Mr. Crouch gave a different interpretation of the rules than Dumbledore had the previous evening.

Eric: That’s not my comment.

Micah: Yeah, I added that, I’m sorry.

Andrew: Oh, Micah – he says that:

“If someone’s name is ejected from the Goblet, he is required to compete in the tournament.”

The rulebook wording almost certainly states that any person entering his name into the Goblet must compete. So Micah, you’re saying, the fact that Harry didn’t enter his name means that he shouldn’t have to compete. However, everyone’s pretty skeptical of Harry, everyone, as we’re going to discuss in a little bit, everyone thinks that it was Harry that put his name in. So…

Micah: Well, the reason why I put this point in here is that Dumbledore specifically states that any person entering his name creates this magical binding contract, but Barty Crouch Sr. says, only when the name is ejected it creates this magical binding contract.

Eric: Oh, I get it.

Micah: And the point being that this should have been a tip-off that something’s wrong with Barty Crouch Sr. He acts really odd during this whole process and this is the starting point of seeing him deteriorate throughout the course of the next few chapters. And I just thought this was a early shot – an early look into the fact that he wasn’t in the right state, because think about what’s just happened. They’ve just added a fourth champion to an event that’s only had three champions for how many hundreds of years. And he’s complicit in all of this. He’s not willing to stand up and say something about it. So it’s clear that the Imperius Curse is working its toll on him.

Eric: Yeah, I like that discrepancy, too, where it is a binding magical contract, but like all contracts you need to sign somewhere, and I feel like you sign when you put your name in not when the Goblet chooses your name – it should be that by entering, by putting your hand in, maybe you have to…

Micah: Right.

Eric: …dip your hand in whatever’s in the Goblet – [clears throat] excuse me – whatever’s in the Goblet, and you know, that creates the contract.

Micah: But the point is he should know this. This is his tournament, and for him to be, you know, so off on the rules…

Eric: Yeah, but doesn’t it suck…

Micah: Even on a small point like this.

Eric: Doesn’t it suck that they got to him?

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Micah: Yeah, but – I mean, this is sort of the groundwork being laid, and you know, he should be really opposed to this whole thing that’s happening. He should be launching an investigation into it. You know, we hear Percy talk about him so much as being this stickler for detail earlier on in the book…

Eric: Mhm.

Micah: And this is clearly not the same person.

Eric: Yeah, I blame Dumbledore more because Dumbledore is a character we know more than we know this Barty Crouch Sr. stranger, and I blame Dumbledore for letting all of this go on. You know, Dumbledore likes to pretend that his hands are tied, but I feel like maybe he just has his nails painted and he doesn’t want anybody seeing his hands right now, because…

Micah: Yeah, and…

Eric: You know…

Andrew: Yeah, he lets it off a little too easily.

Micah: Yeah, I agree. And I think the fact that Barty Crouch Sr. refused to stay for a drink – and you know, if you noticed, there is that one scene where Moody kind of stepped in – it’s all about Barty Crouch Jr. exerting this control over his father and making sure that nothing happens to compromise. You know, the plan…

Andrew: So Crouch introduces the first task, and says “We are not going to be telling you what the first task is. Courage in the face of the unknown is an important quality in the wizard… very important…”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Which I thought sort of relates to Book 7 when Harry’s facing Voldemort, with the whole courage thing. I thought that was kind of, you know, kind of related. The meeting wraps up, and as Harry and Cedric walk back to their respective common rooms, Cedric asks Harry how he did put his name in the Goblet. Harry says “No, I didn’t. I insist,” but Cedric doesn’t believe him, which disappoints Harry. So Harry gets back into his common room and Harry is met with a lot of support from fellow Gryffindors. He doesn’t like it though, because he still is really confused about all this, and he’s too preoccupied wondering how the hell his name did get in there. And to make matters worse, once he’s in bed, Ron also questions whether he put his name in the cup. Harry denies it but Ron still doesn’t believe him, even though, as Harry says, it should be Ron who – Ron of all people who trusts him.

Micah: And here’s why I don’t like this whole thing. It’s that Ron’s pretty much with him 24/7…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: So one would think he would know if he put his name in, and that’s what bothers me about this more than anything else. But it’s just Ron being an immature prick.

Eric: Well, it’s just that. Due to the duration of time that Ron spends with Harry, that was why he was so upset. It’s because he internalized it and said “Well, despite all the time I’m spending with Harry, he still snuck off and did this. Why wouldn’t he have shared that with me? We’re together like almost all the time.”

MuggleCast 212 Transcript (continued)

Chapter-by-Chapter: “The Weighing of the Wands”

Andrew: And that brings us to Chapter 18, “The Weighing of the Wands.”

Eric: “Weighing of the Wands.” Harry wakes up and Ron’s gone. Ron already went down to breakfast. He didn’t even wake Harry. He didn’t say “Harry, get up.” It’s not like he kicked him or anything like that. Ron’s just gone. So Harry wakes up, he’s alone in the Gryffindor common room, and he has to go down into the common room. Of course, the common room breaks out in applause. Everybody’s still really happy about Harry being the champion and Harry again just doesn’t like the attention. He’s dreading going down to the Great Hall because he knows that Ron is upset with him, and he doesn’t want even more people cheering him on or asking how he did it and he just doesn’t want the attention. This is something – it’s a renewing character trait with Harry, where he doesn’t want the attention he’s getting and he doesn’t…

Andrew: It’s kind of interesting that everyone is applauding him for something they don’t really even know much about.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: It’s kind of ominous. They don’t know what the first task is…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: They don’t know what any of the tasks are going to be. It seems – I don’t know…

Eric: Well, you’re saying people shouldn’t be excited about this new tournament then? Or…

Andrew: No, I’m saying people should be a little more concerned for Harry instead of being excited that he’s going to be, you know, their entertainment for the next few months.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It’s just…

Eric: Maybe they feel like…

Andrew: It’s a…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It’s kind of thoughtless…

Eric: Maybe they feel like Micah does…

Micah: Well, he’s really their entertainment for seven years.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Maybe they feel like Micah does, you know. He’s survived this far. He’s got a pretty good track record, but yeah. So anyway, Harry leaves the common room to go down and get breakfast. Fortunately, Hermione is right there and she already has brought toast up for Harry and says “Lets take a walk.” I thought this was a really nice moment in the books. Harry and Hermione take a walk, they do walk along the lake and she’s brought toast up from the Great Hall. This is just good insight into Harry’s character from Hermione. You know, she’s being – she’s being a good friend, and this is played out in contrast to Ron and how he’s behaving.

Andrew: Yes.

Micah: I agree.

Eric: Anyway, Hermione tries to convince Harry while they are walking to write to Sirius. [Harry] doesn’t want to do that and she’s worried, you know, obviously just for his safety, but he doesn’t want anymore attention, et cetera, et cetera, and Hermione makes an interesting comment. She says that Harry is “in half the books about You-Know-Who already” while they are talking about him being popular and getting attention. She says she doesn’t want to – she thinks there’s a write-up already in the Goblet – in the Daily Prophet probably. But half the books about You-Know-Who, doesn’t that number seem low to you guys?

Andrew: Well, I was thinking maybe those books are outdated.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s the only thing I can think of. They were probably written…

Micah: There are probably books about his rise to power or something like that.

Eric: But okay, so my – I guess my point was many people seem to be ignorant of Voldemort, or like who he was before he was Voldemort and – you know, surely a lot of the subject matter is going to be about his downfall and therefore have Harry Potter. I just think the number of Harry being “in half the books about You-Know-Who” suggests that there are a whole another half of books about You-Know-Who that don’t have Harry Potter in them. What would they be about if people don’t in fact know that Voldemort used to be a man named Tom Riddle? If people don’t in fact know that Voldemort is a direct descendent of Slytherin and – you know, what I’m saying is the knowledge should be out there that would enable other people to eventually find the Horcruxes or at least know the Gaunt family and that sort of thing.

Micah: Yeah, but I think probably those books are about his – as I said before – his rise to power, you know. Maybe once he became Voldemort – forget about Tom Riddle, very few people know about that. I think it was probably from whenever he first started gaining a following and gaining power up to the point of when that First War took place. I mean, you could write a book on that prior to whatever happened with the Potters.

Eric: Mhm.

Micah: You know, maybe you create a second edition or a third edition, whatever it might be, but there could definitely be books out there about him and about what he did and things that he did prior to what happened on the night that he went to Godric’s Hollow. So, I think that there’s definitely books out there about him that have no mention of Harry Potter. You know, think if you’re like a Borgin or Burke. You write a book about Voldemort as he’s rising to power and how powerful he is.

Eric: That’s true.

Micah: Obviously Harry hasn’t even been conceived at this point yet.

Eric: Yeah, didn’t Voldemort have like a seven-year reign or something like that where he was terrorizing people for quite some time?

Micah: Yeah, I’m sure.

Eric: I mean, it’s called the First War, you know, so…

Micah: Yeah. Absolutely.

Eric: Yeah, I do suppose you’re very right on that. And I guess my point was, too, that Hermione is probably not exaggerating when she says “You’re in half the books.” I feel like Hermione is pretty reliable, that he is probably in half those books, that we aren’t supposed to take that to mean that it’s just any number of books. So, I don’t know, anyway. Okay, so the next comment we talked about earlier in this discussion, so we’ll be brief. But there’s a quote in the books and it’s talking about everybody giving Harry crap because it seems like – or now it really is that the whole school is against Harry. They either think he cheated, or the Hufflepuffs in particular think that he’s trying to take the glory away from Cedric. So here’s the quote from the book. Jo writes,

“The Hufflepuffs, who were usually on excellent terms with the Gryffindors, had turned remarkably cold toward the whole lot of them. It was plain that the Hufflepuffs felt that Harry had stolen their champion’s glory; a feeling exacerbated, perhaps, by the fact that Hufflepuff House very rarely got any glory, and that Cedric was one of the few who had ever given them any, having beaten Gryffindor once at Quidditch.”

This is perhaps the biggest insight into the mindset of the Hufflepuffs like ever in the series, so it’s interesting that Jo acknowledges this because she’s trying to explain why even the Hufflepuffs turn against him. But did you guys have any thoughts on this, like…

Micah: Yeah…

Eric: …at all?

Micah: But shouldn’t they know to believe Harry by this point? I mean, you look what happened in Chamber of Secrets, when they thought that he was responsible for what happened to Justin Finch-Fletchley. And, you know, they were all talking behind his back – Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, there’s that scene in Chamber of Secrets – and it ends up being that Harry’s the one not responsible for any of this. So, it’s just – they should know by this point that usually the accusations that were made against Harry – the Heir of Slytherin thing, and now this, putting his name in the Goblet of Fire – usually don’t end up being true. But I can understand the animosity because as we said before, Cedric is their House and is representative of their House, so they have every right to be ticked off that there’s somebody who’s clearly more well-known than him, has sort of overshadowed him now and taken away this glory. Think about rivalries that exist between schools, or even within schools, or within districts, you know. I mean, it’s kind of the same thing. In my opinion, anyway.

Andrew: Right. Then – no, I think the large majority of this comes from the animosity about stealing Cedric’s thunder.

Eric: Mhm. All right. Of course, everybody is upset with Harry, even Draco, and Draco has this throwaway line. He’s insulting Harry, and he says that, “Half the Triwizard champions have died.” And I thought that was interesting. It’s another moment in this chapter where a character says half of something, but if that’s true, then that’s pretty – that is pretty high odds. I know we talked about how safe the Triwizard Tournament is or isn’t, but if half the champions have died in the past, maybe they really should have re-thought holding this tournament, because half is pretty high odds, and by the end of this book, almost half the champions have died again.

Micah: Well, I think it’s Dumbledore’s personality shining through again. He’s a big risk-taker. The whole reason I think he’s doing this is to bring everybody together for that final battle in Deathly Hallows, you know, to sort of unite, not just these three schools, but to unite Hogwarts as a whole. This is the beginning of all of that taking place, and that’s sort of his plan being put into action very early on. So, it is a huge risk that he’s taking, obviously, and he’s putting people’s lives in danger, but it wouldn’t be the first time. I mean, certainly these are not the first people he’s put in harm’s way.

Andrew: And it’s a tradition, it’s a very large tradition. I mean this is a very epic event, everyone’s been talking about it. We’ve seen people talking about it since the beginning of the book because it’s so exciting to them.

Eric: Mhm.

Andrew: I don’t know at the end of the day what it really proves or does for anything in the wizarding world, but it’s a very well respected event.

Eric: I guess so, or feared. But moving on, Malfoy and Harry do end up dueling. They’re sitting outside of Potions waiting for Snape and Harry casts a spell on Malfoy that is not Expelliarmus, which I thought…

Andrew: [sings] Hallelujah!

Eric: [laughs] He casts Furnunculus which causes boils to appear on Goyle’s face, and Malfoy’s spell was Densaugeo which causes…

Andrew: Those are two very funny words.

Eric: Yeah, funny words, spells never seen again as far as I recall, and very, very interesting where they pick up these spells. Of course Malfoy’s spell hits Hermione and makes her teeth grow abnormally large. [laughs] It’s just very interesting that Harry casts something that’s not Expelliarmus. I thought that was worth noting. Moving on, Colin Creevey saves the day…

Micah: Well, can I just throw in one thing here?

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: The thing you left out is what happens when Snape arrives.

Eric: Yeah, that was a point I cut for the interest of time. But…

Micah: But I think it’s important because it shows Snape being a complete ass. And if you think about what would happen to a teacher in this day and age for doing something like that, he would be sent packing to insult a student that way, to basically have enlarged teeth. Think of a comparison, you know, say somebody gets hit in the face with something and the teacher turns around and says, “Oh, I don’t see that much of a difference.”

Eric: Yeah, I mean Hermione is very upset with this, and Snape, he says, “I don’t notice a difference.” That’s irresponsible. That’s completely – it’s horrible, is what it is.

Micah: Yeah. It’s a terrible thing.

Eric: Anyway, so they’re in the Potions lesson. Harry is sure that Snape is about to poison him because they’re testing antidotes and Snape is, I don’t know, eyeing him funny. Fortunately, Colin Creevey shows up in the Potions room and says Harry needs to go and be excused because he’s needed upstairs. Snape objects (Duh-duh-duh-duh-duh), but Colin says “Oh, it’s for the wand weighing ceremony.” And this is something Harry didn’t know about. I’m wondering why nobody either scheduled the wand weighing ceremony at another time that wasn’t during Potions, or why Harry didn’t know to expect this wand weighing ceremony. This is the first time Harry heard of this. What is this?

Micah: This is…

Andrew: There’s not much organization at Hogwarts.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: So for something like this to happen is completely normal and expected.

Eric: Didn’t you get the memo?

Micah: Well, I think part of this though, too is to really just increase the hatred towards Harry. Oh, look at him, he’s able to get out of class so he can…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …go and participate in this special event. It pisses Ron off to no end. It’s just to set up those types of plot points, I think.

Eric: Yeah, that’s a good point. Moving on. So, he goes upstairs, Rita Skeeter’s up there with her photographer who is Zobo or Bonzo in the movie. She gets Harry alone and we meet the Quick Quotes Quill. [laughs] Fortunately, he is rescued by Dumbledore, and just before that happens, or when that happens, there are some weird descriptors that Jo uses for Rita. And I am going to quote from the book.

“Harry noticed that her quill and the parchment had suddenly vanished from the box of Magical Mess Remover, and Rita’s clawed fingers were hastily snapping shut the clasp of her crocodile-skin bag. ‘How are you?’ she said, standing up and holding out one of her large, mannish hands to Dumbledore.”

Mannish hands, she’s not – Jo isn’t talking about me in my Halloween costume here. She’s talking about Rita Skeeter. Clawed…

Andrew: Man hands.

Eric: Clawed man hands.

Micah: [laughs] She’s got man hands.

Eric: What’s the deal? What is the purpose of this?

Andrew: That’s sometimes what – that’s – the purpose of it is to describe Rita as a larger than life figure. [laughs] No, I…

Eric: Ugly? Is Rita ugly?

Andrew: Yeah. See, I’m afraid to say anything to offend, to be offensive. I feel like man hands is a sort of – it is a sort of derogatory – I know she doesn’t use the word “man hands”, but that is basically what she is saying. It’s derogatory.

Eric: Is it?

Andrew: It’s to make her seem like a man.

Eric: Well, she’s not – it just means not feminine, right? I mean, the kind of…

Andrew: Yeah, partly, yeah.

Eric: So, I mean she’s kind of like a vulture. I guess there are more vulture allegories. Like clawed hands, for instance. I guess that probably just fits her character.

Micah: Which is the complete opposite of Miranda Richardson in the Goblet of Fire film, but…

Eric: Mmm, do you think so?

Andrew: She’s not manly.

Eric: No, she… [laughs]

Micah: No, she’s definitely not.

Eric: No, she’s not manly, but she is – but she knows what she wants and, I guess, uses different ways to get it. It’s just – it was a weird descriptor. Okay, so Ollivander is in and he weighs everybody’s wands. I don’t know what the purpose is. I guess – he says the purpose is to make sure that their wands are all functional. Really, I think Ollivander doesn’t have a lot to do when it is not school season, so he just…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …looks for these…

Andrew: Probably.

Eric: …excuses [laughs] to go around. He finds out that – or he says – we find out reading the book that Fleur’s wand is actually made of Veela hair. She says it is her grandmother’s and Harry reminds himself to tell Ron about that, that she is Veela, but remembers Ron isn’t speaking to him. Ollivander says, “I’ve never used Veela hair myself, of course. I find it makes for rather temperamental wands,” and I thought this was funny because…

Andrew: That is funny and I wonder what other types of hair would – what effects they would…

Eric: Yeah!

Andrew: …have, like…

Eric: Like – that is very interesting.

Andrew: I mean, I can’t think of any examples on the spot, but maybe like a giant’s hair… [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …or a half-giant’s hair.

Eric: [laughs] Half a…

Andrew: I don’t – that would make someone clumsy maybe…

Eric: Your spells are magnified.

Andrew: …or make the spells clumsy.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, the spells bigger, who knows?

Eric: [laughs] So, Cedric’s wand contains a single hair, quote: “From the tail of a particularly fine male unicorn.” [laughs] Then Ollivander says, “Must have been seventeen hands, nearly gored me with his horn after I plucked his tail.” So I guess that means that Ollivander physically goes out and gets, acquires, procures the unicorn hair, phoenix tail feathers and dragon heartstrings that make up the core of his wands.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s pretty cool. So that explains what he’s doing when school – when people aren’t shopping for wands.

Eric: I guess so. He’s going out and making them.

Andrew: Closes down and goes wand hunting.

Eric: Well, [laughs] I wrote here that it sounds like he shouldn’t be kidnappable.

Andrew: Because he is so experienced out on the field?

Eric: Because he can get – he can pluck a tail feather off a unicorn and not get gored. It just sounds like – I don’t know. I don’t know. It was funny. But all right, so Ron is still not talking with Harry when he gets back. He just says, “Harry, you got a letter,” and Harry reads the letters from Sirius. Harry did end up writing to Sirius. I don’t know if I wrote that. He kind of summarizes things. But Sirius wants to meet Harry face-to-face at 1:00 A.M. on the 22nd of November. Now I looked this up because I have been a big supporter, or actually the opposite of a supporter. I don’t like this timeline that people have established saying that Book 4 is in 1994. And I looked it up and sure enough – I mean, I think eventually Jo gave in and was, like, “Sure, Book 4 is 1994.” But the 22nd of November is a Tuesday so if we go by canon here, Sirius wants to meet Harry face-to-face at 1:00 A.M. on Tuesday night. And I say, that is a school night, Sirius is officially a bad role model for Harry.

Andrew: Well, it’s not like Harry – well, we don’t know for sure, but I presume they’re not going to bed early every night or anything. I don’t think Sirius is really damaging him.

Micah: Well, do you…

Andrew: And plus, that is the best time because nobody is in the common room. I mean, sure – and on a weekend night people may be up at 1:00 AM in the common room. So…

Micah: Yep, yep.

Eric: So…

Micah: I agree.

Eric: …that concludes the chapter.

Listener Tweet: Interrogation

Andrew: So, that is it. We have one tweet here from Liz_Anne_B. She has a question about these chapters:

“Why does Dumbledore interrogate Harry, asking if another student put his name in the Goblet and not ask about non-students?”

Eric: Is this a book question…

Andrew: I think…

Eric: …or is this a movie question? Because…

Andrew: Book, book…

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: …book. I think the reason would be that Dumbledore just assumes he is working with other students. I mean, unless it was Sirius I don’t think Dumbledore would assume any other possible non-student that would do it for Harry.

Micah: Yeah, there is nobody there. I mean, Lupin is gone. I mean, he would probably be the only one. I mean, he is not going to ask McGonagall to do it for him. Or Moody who has just gotten there wouldn’t be a candidate. [laughs] Snape sure as hell wouldn’t be putting it in for him. So I mean, I guess it doesn’t – from a plot standpoint it doesn’t make sense, but I think overall we kind of talked about it. I think Dumbledore really botched this whole thing. I think there should have been a huge investigation other than just saying, “Well, there is a binding magical contract and the kid has to do it.” That seems so irresponsible.

Eric: Yeah, it undermines everything that he is trying to do with bringing everybody together if he can be controlled the way he is in this book. But that reminds me of a question: okay, doesn’t Snape threaten to use Veritaserum on Harry in this book? Veritaserum shows up later when they use it on Barty Crouch Jr.

Andrew: That would have been helpful here.

Eric: Yeah. Well like I’m saying, it’s very, very easy – very simplistic – to find out if Harry put his name in the Goblet of Fire and clear his name because the last thing any student needs – I think – okay, on one hand Dumbledore doesn’t want to torture Harry and be – give him any kind of substance that is going to force him to tell the truth, heaven forbid somebody ask him what he does with himself at night and he has to answer. But I feel like it would have cleared Harry’s name and would have prevented him from a lot of hatred.

Micah: It would have cleared his name, but I don’t think it would have made a difference though. I think he would still have to compete in the tournament and that is what it comes down to. I think a majority of people in that room, maybe with Karkaroff and Madame Maxime aside, believe that he didn’t put his name in there. I mean, I don’t think Dumbledore does, I don’t think McGonagall does, and…

Eric: Well, I’m talking about…

Micah: …Moody definitely doesn’t.

Eric: Yeah. I’m talking about Harry’s peers though because you’ve got this situation where, sure, he has to compete…

Micah: What? Are you going to put him on display in front of the Great Hall [laughs] and…

Eric: With Veritaserum?

Micah: …give him Veritaserum?

Eric: Maybe not. But I’m saying – look – I mean, Harry now has to – it’s not only being the youngest champion and still having to do the tournament no matter what. It is – in addition to that is the crap he has to go through in classes for the stupid reason that people think he put his name in. It doesn’t matter if they ever find out who really did it because they will anyway through the natural course of time, but I feel like that would have been one of the ways that we know is in this book, is introduced maybe a little further along. But it would have really helped Harry out given all that Harry is doing for Dumbledore and has to do for Dumbledore in the future if at this point Dumbledore counts on Harry to defeat Voldemort one day.

Andrew: All right…

Eric: Dumbledore could have outstretched one of his painted hands a little bit further there.

Muggle Mail: The Imperius Curse

Andrew: Let’s get to Muggle Mail now. This first one is from Nicole Shields, 26, of Columbia, Missouri. She writes about the Imperius Curse:

“I just want to make sure the point that one can leave the side of a person under the Imperius Curse. For example, in ‘Half-Blood Prince’, Malfoy doesn’t spend every moment with Rosmerta who he has under the Imperius Curse. He places the curse and then stays in the castle controlling her from there. Also in Book 7, Yaxley in Chapter 1, page 5, American edition, says that he has placed the Imperius Curse on Pius Thicknesse. Since…”

[laughs] She spelt it ‘Thickness’.

[Eric and Micah laugh]


“Since Thickness isn’t sitting with them at Malfoy Manor, I think it’s safe to assume that it is still in effect despite the distance from the caster.”

So, here is our answer for that.

Eric: Yeah. That’s kind of weird how that happens because I feel like with any spell you should have to make eye contact, but it’s canon.

Micah: Well, yeah. I mean, I think you also look at the fact that Barty Crouch, Sr. – he eventually stopped showing up at work but he is still going to work at this point in the book and clearly is under the Imperius Curse from Peter Pettigrew, so it has to be able to work from a distance.

Muggle Mail: Dumbledore’s Approval

Andrew: Next e-mail is from Lucinda, 53, of Virginia. She writes:

“Just wondering why you think Moody/Barty Crouch was telling the truth when he tells the class Dumbledore thinks they are ready to know about the Unforgivable Curses or agreed they should experience the Imperius Curse. I think he used Dumbledore’s name to keep the students from questioning his teaching these curses. Love the discussions, especially while I’m re-reading the books before the next movie comes out.”

Micah: I think Dumbledore would have found out though, eventually. I mean…

Eric: Oh easily.

Micah: …it’s okay for Moody to use his name, but I think that it’s not like it’s going on without Dumbledore’s knowledge.

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t think Dumbledore – Dumbledore can be a little screwy but when it comes to what’s going on in the classes, I don’t think he misses a beat.

Eric: Well – did you guys cover this question last week? Why now are they learning the Unforgivable Curses?

Micah: Yeah, we talked about that.

Andrew: Yeah, we did. We talked a lot about that actually.

Eric: Okay, I’ll just…

Andrew: So…

Eric: …listen to the last episode.

Andrew: Do do that. Eric, you want to read the next e-mail?

Muggle Mail: Moody’s Defense

Eric: Yeah. This one is from Karla, 33, of Montreal. She says:

“Hello all, I just want to start by saying I love your show. You guys are my companions all of the way to work. Keep up the good work! Now as for Moody a.k.a. Crouch Jr., I just wanted to point out that I believe the reason Moody came to Harry and Ron’s defense against Draco has a lot to do about the fact that Crouch Jr. really hated the Death Eaters that turned their back from Voldemort after he disappeared. Draco represented that by attacking them behind their backs. Crouch Jr. was so upfront about his devotion to Voldemort that he was proud of the fact he went to Azkaban instead of pretending that he was Imperiused. He is a lot like Bellatrix in that sense. His reaction to Draco was genuine, not only because of Lucius’ betrayal to Voldy but because of Draco’s character as well. Thank you all for your show, Karla.”

Micah: Yeah, that’s a good point I think, just following up on what we said last week that Barty Crouch/Moody was more than willing to attack Draco because of how he felt toward Lucius and sort of Draco being the closest thing he can get to Lucius Malfoy.

Andrew: Micah, how about you read the next e-mail?

Muggle Mail: Trelawney’s Observations

Micah: Next e-mail, Eric, 35, of Dublin writes in and he says:

“In Chapter 13 of ‘Goblet of Fire’ during Divination class, Professor Trelawney makes an interesting observation about Harry. She says, ‘I was saying that Saturn was surely in a position of power in the heavens at the moment of your birth… your dark hair… your mean stature… tragic losses so young in life… I think I am right in saying that you were born in mid-winter?’ We later find out in Book 6 that Voldemort was born on New Year’s Eve. Also, Trelawney’s three descriptions of Harry could pertain to Tom Riddle/Voldemort as well. Since we know that Harry and Voldemort share a link since Voldemort tried to kill Harry as a baby, could Trelawney be seeing a glimpse of the part of Voldemort that is in Harry? Just an interesting bit of foreshadowing that I picked up on. Keep up the great work.”

Andrew: I think that is an awesome theory.

Eric: [laughs] I agree.

Andrew: And sort of – and another double meaning of sorts like we were talking about earlier with the thing in Chapter-by-Chapter…

Micah: Yeah, absolutely.

Muggle Mail: Cheesy Endings

Andrew: …with Moody/Barty Crouch. That’s really cool. I like that a lot. And finally, the last e-mail comes from Hallie, 16, of Minnesota:

“Hey MuggleCast, great show! My question is why, in my opinion, do the ‘Harry Potter’ movies always have cheesy endings? I don’t recall the ending of the first movie but the second movie ended with Hagrid and Hermione coming back and everyone cheering for Hagrid, third movie ended with the freeze frame ending of Harry on the Firebolt, fourth ending with people leaving and Hermione says, ‘Everything is going to change now, isn’t it?’ Harry says, ‘Yes.’ Cheesy. The fifth ends with them going to the train and Harry says they have something worth fighting for. And number six ends with the trio on the Astronomy Tower with Fawkes in the background.”

Yeah, I think she makes a good point. They have never gotten a movie ending right, which is kind of worrying for Part II. [laughs] Part I may be the best one because it’ll sort of just drop off.

Micah: Yeah, I agree. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: She makes a good point, you’re right. She does.

Andrew: I can’t – what was – oh, Part – Movie 1, she said she couldn’t remember. It’s – they are on the train and they are waving bye to Hagrid. That wasn’t that good.

Eric: Look, I don’t…

Micah: It’s a kids movie.

Eric: …have a problem with any of these endings, with the exception to Movie 3.

Andrew: Well, yeah actually now that I think about it, Movie 1’s ending was nice. Movie 3 ending was the worst with the freeze frame, no doubt about that.

Eric: And because the Firebolt scene from…

Micah: Thank you, Alfonso.

Eric: Yeah, the Firebolt scene…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …from the middle of the book is at the end of the movie. I just – I don’t even know.

Dueling Club: Ghost Edition

Andrew: So, that’s all for Muggle Mail. If you want to possibly get your e-mail read on the show, just visit and there is a contact form, and you can write in that way. Now it’s time for Dueling Club: Ghost Edition.

[Eric makes ghost noises]

Andrew: In honor of Halloween. Micah and Eric – Micah, thank you for selecting these ahead of time.

Micah: It wasn’t me.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: [laughs] It was Eric.

Andrew: Oh. Eric, thank you. You’re wonderful. So, Micah, you’re assigned to defend The Grey Lady and Eric, you’re assigned to defend Moaning Myrtle. Micah, you first. Go ahead. Why should The Grey Lady defeat Moaning Myrtle in a duel of the ghosts?

Micah: Oh, this is so simple. I mean, The Grey Lady is the daughter of one of the founders of Hogwarts. I mean, clearly she would inherit the intellect and the wisdom of Rowena Ravenclaw. This is a no contest. Moaning Myrtle is just a whiny little bitch…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: …in the corner of the girls’ bathroom. She was petrified to death by a snake because she was too busy letting the emotions get the best of her. I mean, The Grey Lady would eat her up in a matter of seconds.

Eric: Micah…

Andrew: And Eric, why would you…

Eric: …I anticipated your using that defense and I have completely prepared myself to meet it. Lord Voldemort is a direct descendant of Salazar Slytherin and therefore you would assume that he has inherited some of the unique magical strength and powers that has come from his bloodline. And when compared to Harry Potter, a whiny little bitch who has no talent and only always uses Expelliarmus as a spell, you wouldn’t expect that Harry, who has never done any studying in his entire life, ends up defeating Voldemort in the end. I compare the two. I compare Moaning Myrtle and The Grey Lady to Harry Potter and Voldemort because I feel like Jo’s books are an example of how unprepared little children can go up against great power, and still beat the odds and survive.

Micah: Oh, okay. So what’s Moaning Myrtle’s strength then? Is she going to flush The Grey Lady down a toilet?

Eric: Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Or she’s going to haunt her. Moaning Myrtle haunted a…

Micah: Oh.

Eric: Diligence.

Micah: Well, that would be annoying.

Eric: Diligence. [laughs]

Andrew: Well…

Micah: That would be annoying.

Eric: No, I’m saying diligence because…

Andrew: …as the judge…

Eric: …Moaning Myrtle – hang on, I’m not finished. Moaning Myrtle haunted Olive Hornby for a real long time. That’s dedication. It takes – it’s got to be…

Micah: [under his breath] It’s dedication? [laughs]

Eric: …tiresome. It’s got to be tiresome. It really has been. So I feel like Moaning Myrtle, no matter what The Grey Lady threw at her, Moaning Myrtle would be resilient.

Andrew: As the judge of this duel, I think Micah wins. Because he is right, there is really nothing to Moaning Myrtle, especially in a duel.

Eric: Well, there is nothing to Harry Potter.

Andrew: Moaning Myrtle I think would be…

Eric: I mean…

Andrew: Huh?

Eric: …there is nothing to Harry Potter either. I mean…

Andrew: [gasps] What?!

Eric: He happens to get the same wand as Voldemort and his mother happened to die defending him, and that is really the only reason he even survives the entire book series.

Listener Tweets: Halloween

Andrew: And now as promised, a couple – we asked people on Twitter if you’re going to be dressing up – continuing with the Halloween theme, we asked people if they’re going to be dressing up for Halloween as a Harry Potter character just like Eric and his womanly get-up over there. ArwenJesusFreak said:

“For Halloween, I’m going to my college’s chapter of the Harry Potter Alliance and watching ‘A Very Potter Musical.’ I’m quite excited.”

So, she’s not dressing up but – he or she. underthestars writes:

“I’m dressing up as a Hufflepuff for my band concert on Halloween.”

And singsongsalong says:

“Last night UF held an event called ‘Halloween at Hogwarts’ which included everything from tasseography to trivia.”

What’s tasseography?

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: I guess we’ll never know.

[Eric and Micah laughs]

Andrew: So…

Micah: I’ll look it up. Hold on a second.

Andrew: Well, it doesn’t even come up with spell check.

Micah: Oh, it’s a divination or fortune-telling method that interprets patterns…

Andrew: Ooh.

Micah: …in tea leaves.

Andrew: Ooh.

Eric: Oh, tasseography…

Andrew: That’s kind of clever.

Eric: …I knew that.

Andrew: Harry Potter is very Halloween oriented so it’s kind of not a surprise that schools would have “Halloween at Hogwarts”-like events. That is really cool. Too bad the Wizarding World of Harry Potter didn’t do anything.

Micah: Yeah, it’s a BobFail.

Andrew: Because the theme park has Halloween events, just not the Harry Potter park.

Eric: Oh dude, I can’t believe they didn’t do anything for Harry’s birthday, they didn’t do anything for Halloween. Halloween is the most important holiday in the Harry Potter series. That’s completely…

Andrew: And it looks like they’re not even doing something for the movie release.

Eric: Or Christmas!

Andrew: I thought…

Eric: Geez!

Show Close

Andrew: …we would have heard something by now. Yeah. Well, Christmas we may – there is still time. Before we wrap up the show today we want to remind everyone about our great little website, It has all the information you need about this show that we do each and every other week.

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Andrew: At the top of the site is a contact link and you can use that to find our P.O. Box address as well as a feedback form where you can write to us if you have any questions about the show that we did here, this episode that you just listened to. And also on the right side of the website are links to our iTunes page where you can rate and review us, our Twitter page where you can follow us, and our Facebook page where you can like us. And all of those ways help you stay up to date on the show. So that’s about it, everyone. Thank you so much for listening! We’ll have an update about the Podcast Awards in about a week from now and we’ll be back soon with another episode. We’ll discuss the latest movie developments and a whole lot more. I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: See you next time for Episode 213. Buh-bye!

Eric: See ya!

Micah: Peace.

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