Transcript #223

MuggleCast 223 Transcript

Show Intro

[“Hedwig’s Theme” plays]

Andrew: Because we want everybody to be happy, this is MuggleCast Episode 223 for March 20th, 2011.

[Show music begins]

Andrew: This week’s episode of MuggleCast is brought to you by, the Internet’s leading provider of audiobooks, with more than 75,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature, including fiction, non-fiction, and periodicals. For a free audiobook of your choice, go to

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 223! Micah, Richard, and I here this week. Hello guys!

Richard: Hello.

Micah: Hello.

Andrew: Richard, I understand you’re trying to brave the fans this episode. You’re turning a new leaf.

Richard: I am not going to insult Daniel Radcliffe’s acting once, not even once.

Andrew: [laughs] But what about anything else?

Richard: Oh. Well, then it’s fair game.

Andrew: [laughs] Oh, okay. I always thought that people were just upset that you just appeared on the show out of nowhere and then [laughs] you were just…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: …trashing the movie. They didn’t get a chance to learn about you or anything.

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Just out of the blue, here’s this guy…

Richard: I’m just miserable. Yeah, I’m just an angry, angry man.

Andrew: Yeah, apparently. And that’s what happens when you live in Scotland.

Richard: And I live in – not anymore.

Andrew: And now Britain, you’re right. So, now you’re turning a new leaf.

Richard: Yeah, exactly. I’m going to be happy and everything.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay, wonderful. I’m Andrew Sims.

Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Richard: And I’m an upbeat Richard Reid.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: What’s in the news, Micah?

News: Deathly Hallows – Part 2 Sneak Peek

Micah: ABC Family had a ‘Harry Potter Weekend’ and one of the things that we were all looking forward to is the sneak peek at Deathly Hallows – Part 2, and we got the sneak peek on Thursday night. There were a couple of other videos that aired that didn’t really pertain as much to Part 2 but this was what we were looking for. It was kind of a mini trailer in a way, with voiceovers by some of the actors and producer David Heyman, David Barron, as well as David Yates, the director. And we got some new scenes and – what did you guys think overall? I mean, too much? Too little? Wet your appetite for an actual trailer?

Andrew: I thought it was too little because I was expecting this was going to be some sort of all new look at Part 2 and it was really – there were some new shots but then there was a lot of stuff we had seen in the Part 1/Part 2 preview a year and a half ago when the Half-Blood Prince DVD came out. So, that annoyed me, to be honest with you. But the new stuff was exciting to see. I just – my expectations were not met.

Richard: I thought it was actually the perfect amount because it wasn’t an actual trailer. It was just – it was like a sneak preview, so we got some old stuff, we got some new stuff. So, it built – it created enough hype for the trailer, I thought, so it was just the right amount.

Andrew: For that trailer that we still do not know the release date of.

Micah: April 1st.

Andrew: [laughs] April 1st?

Micah: Well, let’s talk a little bit about some of the scenes that we did get a chance to see. Probably the one that most people were talking about was Ron and Molly Weasley over Fred’s dead body, and a couple of people didn’t like the fact that I put that out on MuggleNet’s Twitter feed…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: …because apparently the fact that Fred dies is a spoiler. Now the book has been out…

[Richard laughs]

Micah: …for four years and I know the movies do things differently but they generally don’t change the people who die in the film. So…

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Micah: …sorry you were spoiled if for whatever reason you have not read the seventh book yet, but then why you are – [laughs] never mind. I was going to say…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: …why you are following MuggleNet, I don’t know. So…

Andrew: Well, believe it or not, there is an audience of people who just don’t read the books. They are just movie fans.

Micah: Oh no, I know, I know.

Andrew: So…

Micah: And so to those people I apologize because if you have just seen the films and not read the books, then sorry. But that was probably the biggest scene, I think. And another with Ginny running from Arthur screaming, “No!” probably the scene where Hagrid is carrying in Harry’s dead body. So, a lot of emotional scenes I think you saw in this and like you mentioned, there is some stuff from the previous trailer which was not new to us. We got a couple of other shots: Ron saying, “We can end this,” Hermione consoling Harry, wondering what happened just before that. We got some new looks inside Gringotts as well as the actual dragon escaping. And there was a shot of two Death Eaters also, I wasn’t sure who they were. Did you guys…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …know who they are?

Andrew: I’m just watching it again and it just passed that as you said that. I think the one in the foreground is the one who we saw in Part 1 stopping the Hogwarts Express.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: I’m not – but I can’t remember who that was.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: But…

Micah: I’m sure…

Andrew: …at any rate – yeah. I mean, it was a good preview. What can you say?

Richard: The one thing that did stuck out in that trailer for me was – do you know that scene where Harry and Voldemort’s wand are sort of doing battle together, you see the light attacking each wand. I’m guessing that was never in the book, was it? Because they weren’t surrounded by anyone in that scene in the preview but when they fought in the book, almost all the characters in the story were around them in Hogwarts.

Andrew: Yeah. Well, not to mention it was in the Great Hall, too, whereas this appears to be in the courtyard.

Richard: Yeah, outside by themselves.

Andrew: Yeah. And then there is also that shot of Voldemort holding Harry around his neck and that’s not from the book either, so it’s going to be interesting to see what the hell is going on here. I mean, maybe there is still going to be a final scene in the Great Hall. Maybe this is like a – the one outside is duel one and then the one in the Great Hall is duel two.

Richard: See…

Andrew: I just don’t know how they couldn’t make that completely loyal to the book.

Richard: I think that is the scene where Voldemort dies. I think that is where the spell backfired on him. I reckon it just skips out of the Great Hall and then kept outside, just Harry and Voldemort.

Andrew: And then what? People finally catch up to where the action was and they see what has taken place?

Richard: Yeah, I can just imagine them all…

[Andrew laughs]

Richard: …slowly walking over to Voldemort’s corpse.

Micah: And giving him a good kick in the side?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah!

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: Kicking him, spitting on him.

Richard: Spitting on him.

Andrew: Tossing their shoes at him.

Richard: [laughs] Yeah.

Micah: Well, a couple of other things we did get a chance to see, one of Snape where he looks like he is backing up against a window. That probably is right before he dies. That was the scene, I think, that was also in the previous trailer. And…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …we did get another shot of him, though, outside of the Potters’ house in Godric’s Hollow. And that was another…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …scene that a lot of people were talking about. It looks like obviously they are going to do those flashbacks and they look pretty good.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. So, it’s exciting and the ‘Harry Potter Weekends’ – I know a lot of people were watching because I was looking through the MuggleCast e-mail and we were getting a lot of e-mails about questions or things people noticed while watching the [laughs]Harry Potter Weekend’, while watching those older Harry Potter movies.

Micah: Yeah. And one other scene real quick that I saw looks like somebody is putting up a protective spell or breaking that orange orb, whatever you want to call it, that is around…

Andrew: Around Hogwarts.

Micah: …Hogwarts. It’s like this blue spell. So, that should be cool to see because that – there is that scene in the book where McGonagall makes all the things come to life, and…

Andrew: Right.

Micah: …makes Hogwarts come to life and defend itself. So, I think that’s probably what that was but it’s going to be interesting to see this. I mean, it’s slowly starting to happen now. We’re getting the previews and hopefully the trailer soon, and…

Andrew: Slowly but surely. People are thinking maybe the trailer will come with Sucker Punch which is a Warner Bros. film and we know Warner Bros. likes to release the Harry Potter trailers with Warner Bros. movies, so we’ll see.

Micah: Yep.

Andrew: What else is going on in the news?

News: Prisoner of Azkaban named ‘Film of the Decade’

Micah: My favorite movie – and yes, I’m being sarcastic – Prisoner of Azkaban was honored by First Light Awards with the ‘Film of the Decade’ and…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Look, I’ll just report the news, you guys can discuss it as you like.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: This award is voted for by the public in association with the BAFTA Kids Vote, and it’s chosen by kids aged five to fifteen. And this was an award that David Heyman received…

Andrew: Accepted.

Micah: Accepted, yeah, for the Potter franchise. He is actually presented with the award by Clemence Poesy, and – so, interesting connection there, but…

Andrew: I just – listen, it’s good that Harry Potter

Micah: Is being recognized now?

Andrew:…won this award. No, no, no, no, but first of all, these people who gave the award, it’s kind of random. It’s no Oscar. And then when you look at what films it was up against for ‘Film of the Decade’ – I mean, that’s a high honor. And the films it was against were Shrek, Whale Rider, Happy Feet, and Up. I mean, Up was a good film, too, but calling any of these ‘Film of the Decade’ I think is way off. [laughs] I don’t know.

Micah: Yeah, you could be right. I think Shrek probably was – to me anyway, would probably be the stiffest competition for Potter.

Richard: Was the very first Shrek even [laughs] in the last decade?

Micah: Probably.

Andrew: I – apparently. [laughs]

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, I guess so, early on. But – all right. Well, cool, good for Prisoner of Azkaban.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Before we continue with today’s episode, we’d like to remind you that this week’s episode is brought to you by, the Internet’s leading provider of audiobooks, with more than 75,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature and featuring audio versions of many New York Times Bestsellers. For listeners of this podcast, Audible is offering a free audiobook to give you a chance to try out their great service. It’s a hot series lately, you should definitely check it out. So, for a free audiobook of your choice, such as The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, go to That’s We thank Audible for their support of MuggleCast.

News: Potter-themed hotel at Leavesden Studios

Micah: Well, USA Today released some information earlier this morning, we’re recording here on Sunday, and this was about The Making of Harry Potter that is going to open at Leavesden Studios in the spring of 2012. And apparently, part of this $160 million redevelopment is going to include a 120 room hotel that is Potter themed. So, you can go and check out Leavesden Studios and experience The Making of Harry Potter and you can also essentially for all intensive purposes stay at Hogwarts.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: Which is cool.

Andrew: I have to say, though, I don’t think this is going to be a full scale Harry Potter hotel. I think they will theme some of the rooms to be Harry Potter because also remember, the studio tour down the road, they said they are going to open it up to – you will be able to see other films that have shot at Leavesden Studios as well. So, it’s not going to be just a Harry Potter tour. It will be at the beginning, but not down the road. So, I think they will have premium rooms that are Harry Potter themed for a price and those should be cool, definitely. It’s definitely an extra selling point, too.

Micah: Yeah, no question about that. So…

Andrew: What could they put in the rooms, though? I mean, dress them as the Gryffindor common rooms? Or…

Micah: Well, it depends how much they’re going to invest into it from a time standpoint, a money standpoint, and…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: I think that you could go all out. I mean, you could make it look like Hogwarts if you wanted to…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: …you could have the staff play the roles of different characters, and put in maybe a restaurant there or something that is in connection to the Potter series. So, a lot of different things that they could do and they’re probably not going to spare any expense. I mean, like you said, I think to put a hotel there is a great idea because now you don’t necessarily have to go from London out to Leavesden and back, even though you said it was a pretty short trip.

Andrew: Like forty-five minutes, but…

Micah: Yeah, but now you can stay there maybe an extra day and experience the hotel if maybe they are going to do some things and have some events for you to enjoy.

Andrew: Yeah, and they – I mean, if you think about it, they could almost make it how the Harry Potter theme park in Orlando has the Three Broomsticks, The Hog’s Head. I mean, you could have a restaurant and bar in there. But I still think it’s not going to be a complete Harry Potter hotel because it would only – people would only stay there if they’re going to the museum. It’s just not a good location for that kind of thing, I don’t think.

Micah: Yeah, but it is clear that they’re looking to take advantage of this…

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Micah: …Leavesden Studios renovation, because so much talk has been going on about the fact that there’s not a Potter theme park in London or in England. So, I think they’re trying to compensate for that fact now by putting as much…

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: …probably into this area as they possibly can.

Andrew: All right. So, that’s exciting, Micah, but tell me more! I need more exciting news.

News: Harry Potter: The Exhibition Heading to New York City

Micah: More exciting news, Harry Potter: The Exhibition is not going overseas. It’s not done with its North American tour as was initially thought and reported.

Andrew: [whispers] Liars!

Micah: It’s going to be heading to New York City, and it’s going to open in the not-too-distant future on April 5th. It will be at the Discovery Times Square marquee. And this is huge news because we thought it was going to be going somewhere internationally next, and something changed, I think, that caused them to want to go to New York City. I’m not sure what that is.

Andrew: Well, the fact that it’s going to be in Times Square. I mean, the amount of traffic going through that exhibition is going to be insane.

Micah: Oh, it’s unbelievable because…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …if you think about it, even on a slow day, it’s not going to be a slow day. If you have this…

Andrew: No.

Micah: Where was it just recently? In Seattle?

Andrew: Right, right.

Micah: Or even Boston, or Chicago. The thing is – or it was in Toronto as well, I think. Even if you have a slow day in one of those places, it’s not going to be as busy, right? But in New York, slow is another city’s regular busy. You know what I’m saying?

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: The tourism is never…

Andrew: It’s going to be very popular.

Micah: Yeah, no question. So…

Andrew: Micah, you should get a job there…

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: …being that you live in New York City.

Micah: [laughs] Being that I’m going to be unemployed in two weeks. How – this is perfect!

Andrew: Perfect timing! [laughs]

Micah: April 5th, it opens. I’m unemployed as of April 4th. It opens April 5th.

Andrew: I think this is a sign.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: We know the PR people. You can go to them and say, “Hey, I got -” because, don’t the exhibition people have fake British accents?

Micah: Probably.

Andrew: So, start practicing your fake British accent and – say right now, “Welcome to Harry Potter: The Exhibition,” in your best British accent for us.

Micah: Welcome to Harry Potter: The Exhibition.

Andrew: No, in a British accent.

Micah: That’s my best British accent.

Andrew: Oh.

Richard: That sucked.

Andrew: That did suck.

Micah: Oh, wait, wait. Okay, let’s try this. Richard, when Andrew says for me to say it in my best British accent, I want you to say it, okay?

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Andrew: Well, I think you should sit down with Richard and practice.

Micah: Yeah…

Andrew: He’s Scottish, but that will work, too.

Micah: Yeah, same thing basically, right, Richard?

Richard: Yeah. I mean, we’ll just bring a tape recorder into the interview and I’ll speak for you, and…

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Hey, another cool thing about this exhibition is it’s going to have props from Part 2, which I think…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: …this is the first time it’s going to have Part 2 props. So, pretty cool. I hope to check that out.

Richard: This exhibition in New York, is this instead of the rest of the world, or is this first before the rest of the world?

Micah: I think it’s just an addition.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s before it goes overseas.

Micah: Yeah.

Richard: Oh, okay.

Micah: This will be the last stop.

Andrew: Well, until they announce L.A. or somewhere. [laughs]

Micah: [laughs] Yeah, right.

[Richard laughs]

Micah: Well, I was going to say, though, real quick, the reasoning behind doing this I think has a lot to do with Daniel Radcliffe being in How to Succeed in Business. You create a little bit of a Potter theme there. The theater is probably not too far away from where this is going to be and you’ve got the premiere coming up in July, assuming it’s going to be in New York, so you have a lot of things to do now in New York that are Potter related.

Andrew: That’s true. And now it’s almost as good as Orlando. [laughs]

Micah: Almost.

[Richard laughs]

Micah: Almost. But…

Andrew: I hope to check it out, because I still haven’t seen it. But Micah, you have. It’s worth going to, you think?

Micah: What’s that?

Andrew: The exhibition, you’ve been to it, right?

Micah: No, actually, I was supposed to go…

Andrew: Oh, you haven’t.

Micah: …to the one in Boston. I didn’t go, but…

Andrew: Oh.

Micah: …I would assume that I will cover the one here in New York. We’ll see what happens.

Andrew: Maybe, if you’re good.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Thinking of sending Richard.

Micah: Well – no, what I can do is I can try out my [laughs] British accent while I’m there. I can interview before the thing even opens.

Andrew: Well – yeah, exactly. While you’re there, be like, “Hey, listen, I just lost my job yesterday, so…”

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Andrew: “…maybe you could hire me?”

Micah: Feel sorry for me, give me a job.

Andrew: “I promise I’ll post about it on MuggleNet a lot!” They’re going to be like, “We don’t need the traffic! We’re in Time Square!” [laughs]

Richard: So, basically, if the accent doesn’t work, you’re going to try and guilt them into giving you it?

Micah: Yes.

Richard: [laughs] That sounds like a good plan.

News: Deathly Hallows – Part 1 Becomes Highest-Grossing Potter Film Internationally

Micah: Well, the last bit of news that we have for today is that Deathly Hallows – Part 1 recently became the highest grossing Potter film internationally. It surpassed Philosopher’s Stone and has now earned $657.24 million, and so…

Andrew: That’s really amazing.

Micah: It took ten years to get there. Yeah, it is when you think about it, though, just from increase in ticket prices and how that’s all happened over the last decade, and the fact that none of the other Potter films on an international level have been able to pass Sorcerer’s Stone.

Andrew: Well, some people are actually saying that this isn’t – people are saying that inflation made this happen, so technically in terms of the number of tickets sold, Philosopher’s Stone still may be number one internationally.

Micah: That’s a good point.

Andrew: But still a cool headline. [laughs] So…

Micah: That’s like splitting hairs, though.

Richard: Do you think Part 2 is going to beat it?

Andrew: I think it has to, right? How could people not…

Richard: I think Part 2 will be a lot more warmly received than Part 1 will be.

Andrew: Yeah, I think so, too, because everybody – a lot of people saw the first one and from there it was sort of like a downhill.

Richard: Yeah.

Andrew: So, I think everybody will be really interested to see how the series ends. So…

Richard: Yeah, I think so, too.

Micah: Yeah, what do you think? I mean, we’ve talked about this before, but the potential for it to cross the $1 billion mark I think is pretty good, right?

Richard: I think collectively it will, but I don’t think it will by itself.

Micah: You mean internationally?

Richard: Yeah – no, I mean, I think Part 1 and Part 2 will pass the $1 billion mark, but I don’t think Part 2 alone will.

Shout-Out to Apple Employees

Andrew: Oh. So, that’s all the news that we have for everyone this week. Before we move on, I wanted to do a quick shout-out. Everybody knows I’m a big Apple fanboy, and I went to get the new iPad at the Apple Store in Santa Monica. And while I’m waiting in line to pay for it, [laughs] I hear somebody say behind me, “Andrew!” And I look around, and he goes, “MuggleCast!” I’m like, “Oh! Right! Right on!”

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: So, then [laughs] we talked a little bit more afterwards. And his name was Antwon, and I just wanted to say a shout-out to Antwon. Glad that he likes the show. It was really nice meeting him, and I just thought that was cool. It’s always nice to meet people in person, so…

Richard: I think he was following you.

Andrew: No, he was working there.

Richard: [laughs] Oh.

Andrew: [laughs] He was working at the Apple Store.

Richard: [laughs] Oh, okay.

Andrew: Did I mention that? [laughs]

Richard: [laughs] No.

Micah: No, you left that out.

[Andrew laughs]

Richard: But that makes the whole thing a lot less creepy now. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, he was – yeah, he was working there.

[Richard laughs]

Announcement: LeakyCon 2011

Andrew: And on a related note, we actually got an e-mail a few days ago from someone named Ray, 22, of Ireland, who is also working for Apple in Ireland. I’m not sure if he works at the store or in an office over there, but shout-out to him as well. Okay, and we’ve got some fun segments today, as well as Chapter-by-Chapter. But we want to remind everybody that we’re going to be at LeakyCon 2011. You can visit for all the details. We’re going to be putting on at least one podcast. No, we still don’t have [laughs] more details about that but we will in the coming months. It’s still a few months away, so…

Richard: When is LeakyCon, again?

Andrew: It’s – oh, I’m glad you asked! It’s July 13th to the 17th in Orlando, Florida on the Universal Orlando Resort, which is home to The Wizarding World of Harry Potter theme park!

Richard: Woo!

Andrew: So, if you put it all together, it’s the biggest Harry Potter fans at the resort where the Harry Potter theme park is, all going to see Part 2 at the same time. It’s going to be nuts. There’s going to be a midnight showing at Universal’s really nice movie theaters, and there’s going to be a ball. There’s going to be the panels just going really in-depth into Harry Potter. Just a lot of interesting stuff. It’s really going to be so much fun. So, visit, and if you do register, enter code “Muggle”, that’s M-U-G-G-L-E, when you go through, and that way they’ll know – and we’ll know – that you’re coming to see MuggleCast, along with participating in all the fun.

Micah: And who’s going to be there? Who’s going to be part of the panel for MuggleCast?

What If

Andrew: You, Ben, Eric, and I will all be there, so it’s going to be fun. And I actually – I submitted a proposal for a panel a couple of weeks ago that I’m going to be doing with Ben, as well as John and Melissa from Leaky. And we’re going to be – well, I won’t spoil it, but let’s just say it’s going to be fun. So, Okay, here’s a segment we haven’t done in a while: What If. Yes, it’s as simple as it sounds. We just – if you haven’t heard us do the segment before, we just ask what if some crucial part of the Harry Potter series didn’t happen?

Micah: Well, we did one, too – a while ago now at this point – where we said what if J.K. Rowling was a man as opposed to a woman?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: How would that have altered the series and its perception? And we talked about how they made her change it, her name.

Andrew: Her – well, yeah, she…

Micah: Her initials. Her first two initials.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: So, yeah. I mean, we always have fun with this segment and this one actually was sent in anonymously via e-mail.

Andrew: Ooh!

Micah: So, sorry you’re not getting any credit [laughs] for sending this in. We appreciate it, though.

Andrew: So, what is it?

Micah: It’s, “What if Dumbledore had given Tom Riddle the job as Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher?”

Andrew: Well, we know Tom really wanted the job, but he never got it. Do you think there would have been – what do you think, Micah? Do you think Tom Riddle would have been a happier person?

Micah: It is possible. I think also it would allow Dumbledore to keep an eye on Tom Riddle. Maybe he doesn’t go and become Voldemort, or at least not the same level. I don’t know. I mean, it’s a good question and…

Andrew: I think, though, whether or not he got the job, he was still evil. Even while wanting that job, not knowing what Dumbledore was going to ultimately tell him, I think he still would have turned out bad. Maybe he just wouldn’t have been – well, I don’t know. I was going to say maybe he wouldn’t have been as bitter towards Dumbledore, but I don’t think that would have been the case, actually. Because evil is evil. You’re not going to have favorites who are on the opposite side. Tom and Dumbledore still had their disagreements.

Micah: And he cursed the position, remember? I know we try not to think about how it affects the plot later on, but if he doesn’t curse that position, then things probably play out a lot differently in the series. So, what do you think, Richard?

Richard: Well, I reckon that if Dumbledore had given him the job, I reckon that it would have meant Dumbledore would have died a lot sooner because either way, Tom Riddle was going to become Voldemort. I mean, he kind of was at that point already. He was already using that name. He was already doing a lot of really nasty stuff. And Dumbledore knew this and it was only going to get worse. I suspect if he was at the school, Dumbledore would have been forced to challenge him about it. And because we know the prophecy, Dumbledore wouldn’t have won. I reckon Tom Riddle may have killed him.

Micah: Yeah. He also probably wouldn’t have given him the position to protect the students, I think. Not to say that all the people in the regular world are fair game for Tom Riddle/Voldemort to go out and kill, but I think that the students would be in grave danger having somebody so obsessed with Dark Arts teaching them, and – possible to create this breeding ground for Death Eaters and other evil wizards if he’s within Hogwarts educating them on things.

Richard: On the bright side, if he was still there, the students would have learnt a lot of really cool [censored].

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: That is true.

Andrew: Well, if any of you listeners have any ideas about this question, feel free to send them in. Just go to and click on “Contact”, and then we’d be interested in hearing your theories behind what would have happened if Tom Riddle got the job as Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.

Micah: I like what Richard said, though, about Dumbledore meeting his downfall a lot sooner.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Or his death a lot sooner.

Chapter-by-Chapter: “Flesh, Blood, and Bone”

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Let’s now move on to Chapter-by-Chapter. Micah is a brave soul, he’s doing two – we’re doing two chapters this week, and Micah’s guiding us, leading us through both of them because…

Micah: I’m going to try.

Andrew: …I was busy this week.

Richard: And I was lazy.

Andrew: And Richard was lazy.

Richard: I was focusing on being upbeat. That took all of my attention!

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: That’s a sad life, then. [laughs]

Richard: Yeah, I had balloons and everything going on.

[Andrew laughs]

Richard: Jumping up and down…

Andrew: [laughs] Balloons?

Richard: …cheering, smiling a lot, moving those muscles in my face.

Micah: Were you whistling as you walked down the street?

Richard: I was skipping, Micah. I was skipping down the street.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Richard: Skipping down to “Hedwig’s Theme.” [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: All right. Well, Chapter-by-Chapter this week, we start with Chapter 32 of Goblet of Fire, “Flesh, Blood, and Bone.” And Harry and Cedric are transported to the graveyard, and that’s where the last chapter left off. And this raises a question for me about Portkeys because up until this point, how we’ve seen Portkeys be used is that they are very specific in terms of the times that you’re allowed to use them, and it seems like this Portkey is just to the touch, so whoever touched it first, or in this case, Harry and Cedric touching it at the same time, they are transported. So, what do you guys think about that? I mean, it didn’t really – there was a consistency issue there for me.

Andrew: Maybe it was just as simple as there didn’t – you can program it how you want. There was never a rule that specifically said you have to – it will transport you at specific times. I mean, at the beginning of Goblet of Fire when they are transported when the Portkey is activated at certain times, I thought that was to help manage the traffic coming into the Triwizard Tournament.

Micah: You mean the Quidditch World Cup?

Andrew: Or the Quidditch World Cup, yeah. So, by making it certain times, they were able to stagger the amount of people that were coming into the world cup. And of course, when the cup – or when the goblet was turned into the Portkey in this case, it was just set to “Instant Touch.”

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: “Instant Go.”

Micah: Right. And it may raise another question, though, and we’ll get to that probably not this episode, but when Harry transports himself back to Hogwarts, how that necessarily works – because remember, there was nothing that was officially set up for him to return. Nobody programmed the cup to take him back to Hogwarts. So, we can talk about that later, though. Anyway, what happens next is – it’s very quick. Wormtail kills Cedric, and you hear baby Voldemort – or disgusting Voldemort, or I don’t know what you want to call him in this really ugly form – say, “Kill the spare.” And it’s just really quick. When you guys first read this, what was your reaction to Cedric dying? Because it’s really – other than Frank Bryce, who has very little character development, it’s the first death we’ve experienced from the good side in the series.

Andrew: Yeah.

Richard: I was shocked that Wormtail could do it. He’s not portrayed as a very good wizard, and we know from fake Moody’s earlier Defense Against the Dark Arts classes when he talks about the Unforgivable Curses, he states how hard it is to do the Killing Curse in particular, and how you’ve really got to mean it. I didn’t think Wormtail was really capable of it. When I first read that, I almost assumed that it was Voldemort that did it, and “Kill the spare” was just – Harry heard that in his mind or something. But after re-reading it, I realized that wasn’t the case.

Andrew: When I first read it, I just found it to be very tragic, just because it was so sudden and quick and it is an instant death. But the reason why I’m not surprised Wormtail would do it is because he is so loyal to Voldemort. He knows he needs to…

Richard: I don’t think he is that loyal. I think he’s so afraid that he’s got no alternative that he sticks to Voldemort. I don’t think he’s loyal to anyone other than himself.

Andrew: Right, right, yeah. I mean, think of the situation he’s in right now. If he didn’t kill Cedric, he would have been killed himself. He had no escape, so that’s why I think he was forced into doing it.

Micah: So, this is the first true death that Harry experiences in the series, and one of the things that comes out of this – and we see it at the beginning of Order of the Phoenix – is that Harry is now able to see Thestrals. And this is a question we get a lot and it is a question that J.K. Rowling answered, so I just wanted to touch on it really quickly. The question goes something like this: “Why could Harry see the Thestrals in Order of the Phoenix? Shouldn’t he have been able to see them much earlier because he has now seen Cedric die?” But also people would ask, “Well, didn’t he see his parents die? Didn’t he see Quirrell die?” And J.K. Rowling responded by saying:

“I’ve been asked this a lot. Harry didn’t see his parents die. He was in his cot at the time (he was just over a year old) and, as I say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’, all he saw was a flash of green light. He didn’t see Quirrell’s death, either. Harry had passed out before Quirrell died and was only told about it by Dumbledore in the last chapter. He did, however, witness the murder of Cedric, and it is this that makes him able to see the Thestrals at last. Why couldn’t he see the Thestrals on his trip back to the train station?”

She’s talking about at the end of Goblet of Fire.

“Well, I didn’t want to start a new mystery, which would not be resolved for a long time, at the very end of the fourth book. I decided, therefore, that until Harry is over the first shock, and really feels what death means (i.e. when he fully appreciates that Cedric is gone forever and that he can never come back, which takes time, whatever age you are) he would not be able to see the Thestrals. After two months away from school during which he has dwelled endlessly on his memories of the murder and had nightmares about it, the Thestrals have taken shape and form and he can see them quite clearly.”

So, we do get this question a lot. I guarantee we can search our inbox and…

Andrew: So does Jo.

Micah: Yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: [laughs] Well, that’s why she answered it. So, hopefully…

Andrew: Well, it is a really good answer, and you see again how Jo has been very organized from the start of the series.

Micah: Yeah, I think there are things in her answer that she was able to cover, but I think, generally speaking, she had the answer in place.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: Like you said, she was very organized in how she had planned things out. And it’s a great question, and I think she gives a really great answer, especially in terms of Harry having to understand what death is and having experienced it firsthand. So, Harry does, of course, see what has happened to Cedric, and Wormtail goes about tying him up to the grave of Tom Riddle, Sr. And Harry doesn’t put up much of a fight. Now, remember his leg is injured, his head is searing with pain, but it surprised me because going back to what Richard said about Wormtail casting the Killing Curse, Wormtail is not a very strong character. Even in a weakened state, I would think that Harry would be able to fight back a little bit more.

Andrew: It could have been maybe, too, that Harry is still kind of in shock about this situation. I mean, it completely came out of nowhere. One minute, he was fighting in the Triwizard Tournament and suddenly he’s face to face with Voldemort and Wormtail, and maybe that could have affected his fighting abilities a bit.

Richard: I think he’s probably just fatigued. I mean, he’s just gone through an entire tournament.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s true.

Richard: An entire maze. He’s been stabbed in the leg, thanks to that spider. And he’s only fourteen. I guess he’s had a pretty hard day. You can forgive him for wanting to sit down for a little while.

Andrew: That is very true.

Micah: [laughs] Okay. So, Wormtail resurrects Voldemort, and it’s kind of this séance of sorts. Bone of the father, unknowingly given. Flesh of the servant, willingly given. Blood of the enemy, forcibly taken. And did you guys think there’s any religious connection here? Is it almost like the resurrection of Christ except on the evil side of things? Was there any sort of religious connection here for you?

Richard: It was more the resurrection of the Antichrist, I think, than…

Micah: Yeah, well – yeah, that’s probably better put.

Richard: Yeah, maybe.

Andrew: Yeah, I never thought about that, but that’s a good point, especially the way that it’s worded. [in mysterious-sounding voice] “Bone of the father, unknowingly given. Flesh of the servant, willingly given.”

Micah: So, now Voldemort takes on the human form for the first time, really, in the series. We dealt with Quirrell in Sorcerer’s Stone, we dealt with the diary version of Tom Riddle, Jr. in Chamber of Secrets, and he was pretty much absent from Prisoner of Azkaban. So, now Voldemort…

Richard: He was absent altogether, wasn’t he?

Micah: Yeah. So, now he’s back in full form. How do you think this affects Harry? Seeing his enemy now, face to face. He’s real, he’s alive now.

Richard: I suspect the one thing that went through his head at that moment was, “Ahhh, crap.”

Andrew: [laughs] Well, it must have been extremely frightening for him. I mean, had Harry ever even really seen a photo of Voldemort? Other than hearing the accounts of other people talking about how scary and evil he is, this is really Harry’s first look and it must be extremely frightening.

Richard: I’m guessing there weren’t any photographs, given that no one referred to his name, let alone what he looked like.

Andrew: Yeah, and nobody stopped to take a picture when he was [laughs] killing everyone.

[Richard laughs]

Micah: Hey, Dark Lord, come over here. Can I get your signature?

Andrew: Pose for a photo! Say “Cheese!”

Richard: Snap.

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: I’ll tag you on Facebook later!

[Richard laughs]

Micah: Well, he is on Twitter, right?

Andrew: He is. Lord_Voldemort7.

Richard: We interviewed him.

MuggleCast 223 Transcript (continued)

Chapter-by-Chapter: “The Death Eaters”

Micah: Yeah. He does a good job. He’s a pretty funny guy, actually. So, next chapter, Chapter 33, “The Death Eaters,” and it’s a little bit of a comical scene here between Voldemort and Wormtail, because Voldemort asks for Wormtail’s arm and Wormtail holds out the arm that he’s sliced his hand off of, thinking he’s going to get his hand back. And Voldemort just kind of laughs at him and says, “No, the other one,” and he does that thing where he pushes his finger against the Dark Mark tattoo, and all of a sudden, the Death Eaters are called to him and it’s kind of an eerie scene. What if you’re a Death Eater, just going about your day-to-day life, and all of a sudden you feel the mark burn? I mean, it’s obviously gotten more strengthened throughout the course of this book because we hear Karkaroff and Snape talking about it at one point. But would you be a little bit frightened? Would you run right back to the Dark Lord?

Andrew: Oh yeah, because they haven’t felt it in how many years, so I mean, it’s got to be like, “Whoa, I almost forgot what that was like!”

Richard: Yeah, fourteen years, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Richard: I reckon all the Death Eaters were terrified, apart from the ones in jail – apart from Bellatrix and her husband.

Micah: Yeah. So, Voldemort actually recounts – he has this conversation with Harry as he’s waiting for what he refers to as his true family, and we can talk about that in a minute, too. He talks about how he killed his father and how his mother had died in childbirth, and it’s interesting because they say that Voldemort never knew love, but it does seem like everything that he has done, he has done because of what happened to his mother.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: He’s got mommy issues.

Andrew: [laughs] No, I think – I mean, that’s part of it, but some people, and I’m sure we’ve talked about his before, are just born evil. They have this thinking in their head, they have this attitude that just doesn’t go away, and I think it’s part that, too.

Richard: Do you think it was because…

Micah: But I think…

Richard: …he was Slytherin’s heir?

Micah: It could be, but I think…

Richard: Or does that make all Slytherins evil by default?

Andrew: Well, I mean, it could have been a perfect storm of things. I mean, I’m sure we could come up with a pretty decent list of things that have [laughs] pissed Tom Riddle off over the years.

Richard: But when he was a child in the orphanage, he was still a grumpy little sod then, even before he knew much about his mother or father.

Andrew: Right, right. And as is emphasized in Half-Blood Prince a lot, too. I mean, those scenes in the movie were some of my favorite, those Tom Riddle flashbacks, because you really get a good sense of…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: …this kid is [laughs] not on the right track.

Micah: But I think the hatred for non-magical people really came about because of his father and the way that his father abandoned his mother. The fact that his father was a Muggle and his mom was a witch, and I think that played a huge role into it. But you’re right, I think inherently, he is evil and he grows up to be that way. So, just looking in the – what he said about his real family, though – some of the way that he treats these Death Eaters, is that really how you treat your family? I mean, he has such a jaded view of what family is. He performs the Cruciatus Curse on Avery when Avery shows up, and he treats people like they’re insignificant, so can you really consider that your family?

Andrew: Well, he’s been kind of spoiled, where he doesn’t have to treat them nicely, so he can get away with – these so-called family members, treating them like crap and yet they’ll still stick with him.

Micah: I mean, they’re kissing his robes at one point. [laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] I’m sorry it disgusts you.

Richard: It’s better than dying, I guess.

Micah: I guess.

[Richard laughs]

Micah: Now, one of the things he says as the Death Eaters start to show up in the graveyard is – this is a quote, directly from the book – “They who knew the steps I took, long ago, to guard myself against mortal death? They, who had seen proofs of the immensity of my power in the times when I was mightier than any wizard living?” That’s obviously a tie to the Horcuxes, and it’s as early as Goblet of Fire.

Andrew: Yeah, definitely. Good point.

Micah: And I mean, as we’ve gone through the books, I mean, we’ve obviously seen examples of that and how the groundwork is being laid so early on in the series. But as I mentioned, he does perform the Cruciatus Curse on Avery. He kind of goes from one Death Eater to the next, he restores Wormtail’s hand, and then says the all-important line, “May your loyalty never waver again, Wormtail.” So, again, another piece of groundwork being laid because we know Wormtail’s loyalty is to Harry.

Richard: Maybe Voldemort’s not such a bad guy. He gave Wormtail a pretty big hint saying, “Hey, warning, if your…”

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah!

Richard: “…loyalty is going to waver again, bad stuff is going to happen. Stay away from that,” and he went and did it anyway.

Andrew: So, should…

Richard: So, I think Voldemort is just getting a bit of a bad press in this. He gave Wormtail plenty of warning.

Andrew: So, should Wormtail have said right then and there, “Hey, about that loyalty thing…”

Richard: [laughs] He should have asked for further clarification.

Andrew: [laughs] “What if I’m already in a little tizzy…”

Richard: [laughs] Yeah!

Andrew: “…a little situation.”

Richard: “I’ve got a small little life debt here.”

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Richard: “Would that be all right, or is that a no-no?”

Andrew: “Surely you understand, my Lord.”

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: Okay. Micah, what else happens here?

Micah: He continues going down the line of the Death Eaters and he questions Lucius Malfoy’s allegiance. So, it’s just one of those things we just mentioned about family, and it doesn’t seem like he has any respect for these people at all. The ones that he does are the missing Lestranges that he knows are in Azkaban. He talks about getting the Dementors back on his side, the giants that have been banished, and “an army of creatures who all fear.” Now, I thought this was talking about the Inferi, and again, as early as Goblet of Fire, they talk about these creatures. So, not something that – I don’t think I would have even picked it up on reading it a second time.

Andrew: No.

Richard: Voldemort knows about the prophecy at this point, obviously. Why in the hell is he speaking to his so-called family when he should be killing Harry? He’s doing the typical James Bond villain thing and he’s monologuing…

[Micah laughs]

Richard: …and he should have been focusing on killing Harry, and no wonder the guy escapes. I have no sympathy.

Micah: You’re absolutely right. You’re right. He’s just grandstanding. He’s taking too much time.

Andrew: He loves having that moment now. I mean, he’s a being again.

Richard: He even gave him his wand back, for God’s sake!

[Andrew laughs]

Richard: He can’t be…

Micah: Yeah.

Richard: …pissed at all that he’d give him his wand back.

Micah: So, others that he ends up speaking to are Macnair – what’s happening now is you’re getting a bigger picture of who the Death Eaters are.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Maybe you had suspicions in the past, but now you’re starting to get a behind-the-scenes look, and Macnair played a role in Prisoner of Azkaban as the executioner for Buckbeak. Crabbe and Goyle and Nott. He also references six missing Death Eaters, three who have died in his service, and then – this was a cause for a lot of speculation, a lot of theorizing before it was actually – the books were done. He says, “One, too cowardly to return…he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever…he will be killed, of course…and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already reentered my service,” and what did you guys think about that?

Richard: I wasn’t sure who those people were at the time. I remember trying to think who it was, and I was never sure. I wasn’t sure if it was Snape who was the one too cowardly, or the one who’d left him forever. I almost figured that Karkaroff was the one too cowardly.

Andrew: This is the type of riddles that I think really got the fandom buzzing, like with MuggleNet’s I mean, there are just endless threads about these types of things that are…

Micah: Right.

Andrew: …in the book and having to wait for the future. So, it was – these were some of the smartest quotes, dialogue that Jo wrote, I think.

Micah: Yeah, so maybe I actually have it wrong here. You’re saying, Richard, that you think the one who he believed had left him forever was actually Snape, not Karkaroff?

Richard: Yeah, that’s what I always took it as. I don’t think Snape had ever – sorry, I don’t think Voldemort had ever considered Snape to be cowardly.

Micah: Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, no, you’re right, that makes sense.

Richard: Whereas, Karkaroff was obviously – given that he testified against Voldemort in the court.

Andrew: Well, and then Voldemort kept to his word, in terms of…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: …Snape being killed.

Richard: Yeah.

Micah: Well, he killed Karkaroff, too.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: So, not a very nice guy.

Andrew: No.

Micah: Sorry Richard.

Richard: Hey, it don’t bother me. I’m happy and upbeat!

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: [tries to imitate Richard] “I’m happy!”

Richard: And yeah! Come on!

Micah: All right. Well, Voldemort then – he talks a lot in this chapter. He has a lot of storytelling going on, and he recounts what happened the night the spell rebounded on him, and he says “I, who have gone further than anybody along the path that leads to immortality. You know my goal – to conquer death. And now, I was tested, and it appeared that one or more of my experiments had worked, for I had not been killed.” So, again, more Horcrux talk, I guess.

Andrew: And grandstanding.

Micah: Yeah. He’s like, “Oh, you guys know – I mean, I was immortal and nobody came looking for me. So…”

Andrew: “You jerks!”

Micah: And again, that’s when he gets into talking about – this time, about where he had been the last few years. And he mentions Quirrell and how Harry thwarted his attempt to get to the Sorcerer’s Stone, because that would have obviously given him immortality, and then he realizes that Dumbledore would have had that destroyed, so that option was out. And then he talks about Wormtail returning and his run-in with Bertha Jorkins, how it just magically happened, no pun intended. And he kind of really takes a dig at Wormtail, saying that he didn’t think that Wormtail would even have been smart enough to do what he did to Bertha Jorkins, and kind of get her to take a stroll and essentially take control of her, and then bring her to Voldemort where he was able to get out the information that he needed.

Richard: I’m surprised that – I guess, [laughs] for a storytelling purpose, yeah, okay. But why didn’t Voldemort just try and get his body back the first time rather than going back to the Philosopher’s Stone or the Sorcerer’s Stone? Because he could have used Quirrell for his plan just like he used Wormtail. He was always going to be in Hogwarts so he could have got Harry that way. I don’t know. It seems like he wasted three years for nothing.

Andrew: We needed seven books.

Richard: [laughs] Yeah, I guess so!

Micah: That is true. That is true.

Richard: On an unrelated note, in the movie, do you know what was awesome in this scene?

Andrew: What?

Richard: Daniel Radcliffe’s acting. Yeah.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Richard: Oh yeah, awesome!

Micah: You’re trying to make up, Richard.

[Richard laughs]

Micah: You’re trying to make up.

Richard: I’m making friends!

Micah: You’ll get lots of nice e-mails.

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Micah: So, he does talk about Bertha Jorkins giving up information about the Triwizard Tournament and that there’s a willing Death Eater that would be able to help him, and so now you’re just trying to think – because Moody is an Auror, we know that so I don’t think even I was making the connection at this point that – “Who’s at Hogwarts that could possibly be assisting Voldemort at this point?” Did you guys say, “Oh, something’s not what it is appears to be,” or “It’s Karkaroff,” “It’s Snape”? What did you guys think?

Richard: I remember at the time thinking it was too obvious for it to be Snape and Karkaroff, but I didn’t suspect it was Moody.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. I guess I thought it was probably one of those, either Snape or Karkaroff. But yeah, the whole Moody thing I think threw off everyone, despite the hints that you sort of get. I mean, a few chapters ago we were talking about how Moody just happened to show up when Karkaroff was going crazy outside near Hagrid’s hut.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: It was just sort of subtle hints like that, but none of them were too clear.

Richard: Karkaroff or Crouch?

Andrew: Crouch, sorry, not Karkaroff. But Karkaroff shows up and then Moody shows up, and it’s like, “Oh, Moody just happened to be around?” It was strange.

Micah: Yeah. So, this deformed child that we see in King’s Cross in Deathly Hallows is sort of the same thing that Harry saw in the previous chapter being dumped into this cauldron, and Voldemort talks about what kind of state he was in, his rudimentary weak body that was composed of a spell or two of his own, plus unicorn blood and snake venom. I mean, that’s kind of a nasty combination of things and that’s how he lived, really, for the last, I guess, thirteen years, in this disgusting form of…

Richard: I thought he was only in that form when Wormtail came and found him.

Micah: When Wormtail got there?

Richard: So, I think he was just – wasn’t he just like a wisp, like a spirit almost, that he was referring to before that, living in the Albanian jungle?

Micah: Yeah, I think you’re right.

Richard: So, he wasn’t even as much as a solid body at that point. I think when Wormtail found him he was able to use him to create a potion.

Micah: Right, right. But it’s still kind of a nasty thing. You think about combining blood and venom and then whatever spells Voldemort knows, these Dark Arts.

Andrew: Well, yeah, it’s Voldemort! Of course it’s going to be nasty.

[Micah laughs]

Richard: He’s a crazy guy.

Andrew: Come on!

Micah: So…

Andrew: All right.

Micah: But my question is, why not go for a Horcrux? Why…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: No, seriously. I mean…

Andrew: No, no, I know.

Micah: …Richard was talking before about him wasting time right now. If he knows the prophecy, just kill Harry. But when he was in that state, why not go for a Horcrux? Am I missing something that he would have needed to have done in order to bring himself back fully?

Richard: I don’t think he would have been any better off. I think his – I don’t know if you call it a soul or whatever, still existed physically, even though his body was destroyed, so he was still mentally conscious. I think that’s all the Horcruxes give him. I don’t think creating another one would have helped him anymore.

Micah: Well, I’m not saying create any more of them, I’m saying using them to restore himself.

Richard: Can you do that?

Micah: That’s my point, yeah. I don’t think you can. I think they just…

Andrew: Oh.

Richard: There was never any mention of that. They just keep you alive. I don’t think you can use them…

Micah: Right, right.

Richard: …to get your body back.

Micah: Okay. So, the chapter kind of wraps up with Voldemort talking about Harry and how his escape was really lucky, and how his downfall was more due to this unforeseen magic, this ancient magic he should have known about and should have foreseen. And the chapter comes to a close with Voldemort performing this Cruciatus Curse on Harry, and he experiences it for the first time. He’s in pain, and you hear him say to Wormtail, “Untie him and give him his wand,” and that’s how it all comes to a close. It’s time to duel.

Andrew: It’s time to duel!

Micah: But as Richard pointed out earlier, why? I know you’ve got to advance the plot, but let’s go to the moment here. He’s defeated you once, he’s gotten away from you two other times. Don’t you think giving him his wand…

Richard: He’s a slippery little devil.

Micah: Yeah. I mean…

Andrew: I think wizards take great pride in the concept of dueling and maybe Voldemort wants to do it properly. He wants the story to go down in the books that Harry and Voldemort dueled, went face to face, and Voldemort won. He doesn’t – this is just an idea. Maybe he doesn’t want it to look like it was an easy death, easy kill.

Richard: Would the same thing have happened as it did near the end of Book 7?

Micah: Yeah.

Richard: Where Harry didn’t actually die.

Micah: Yeah, it would have had to have happened that way.

Richard: Would that have happened again, or is the reason he did not die is because he made some sort of sacrifice for everyone else?

Andrew: Yeah, I’m not sure. But I mean, Harry would still kind of be making a sacrifice in this situation. So…

Richard: Would he? Because last time, he didn’t defend himself, he just said, okay, take me, kill me. And if he’s fighting back, is he doing that? I don’t know. Otherwise it seems like it would be very easy to avoid death in the wizarding world.

Micah: That’s a good point. So, that’s it for Chapter-by-Chapter this week.

Listener Tweets: Deathly Hallows – Part 2 Sneak Peek

Andrew: Okay. If anybody has any questions, comments – Micah raised a lot of great questions, so feel free to e-mail us. Again, you can just go to and click on “Contact”. Today’s Twitter question: What are your thoughts on the Deathly Hallows – Part 2 sneak peek? Sofia Jansen wrote:

“I thought the new stuff was amazing, but there was heaps of stuff we had already seen! Either way, Bonnie’s ‘No!’ made it for me.”

[laughs] I can’t say I remember that, when Ginny said no.

Micah: Yeah, she screams, “No!” She runs away from Arthur. It looks like Harry…

Andrew: Oh.

Micah: …might be dead.

Andrew: Samantha G. wrote:

“Loved the preview, but disappointed that they showed Fred’s body, the only part I really didn’t want spoiled. But still great!”

You didn’t really see it, though. I mean, you just saw his head, you just saw his hair. You didn’t really get a good look at him, but yeah. Evan Nave wrote:

“I am really excited to see Snape in front of the Potter house. Makes me think that they’ll go into his love for Lily in depth!”

Maybe sort of a flashback or something?

Micah: Yeah. Probably part of “The Prince’s Tale.”

Andrew: Yeah. Aj wrote:

“The ABC special showed enough new stuff while getting me excited to see the movie but I think they shouldn’t put so much out yet.”

[laughs] Okay. So, we’re already getting those complaints. That’s good.

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: Ashley Hyde wrote:

“The sneak peek was amazing. I almost cried watching it. I can tell that this movie is going to be very intense and emotional.”

And lastly, Dana Barringer wrote:

“I liked the trailer but I wish they would’ve shown more scenes from the movie. A lot of the things were from the teaser trailer.”

Well, the things from the teaser trailer were also from the movie.

Micah: Well, here’s the thing, though, for people who say they don’t want to see so much put out yet, don’t watch it. I mean…

Andrew: Don’t watch it?

Micah: …that’s – no, seriously!

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: That’s the…

Andrew: Yeah. No, you’re right.

Micah: …solution. I mean, I guess you still have a right to think whatever you want to think about them putting it out and you don’t like it, but then don’t watch it. I mean, then you don’t get spoiled, you don’t know how things play out. It’s a simple solution.

Muggle Mail: Memory Charms

Andrew: Micah, can you read the first e-mail from Bethanie now as we get into Muggle Mail?

Micah: I just…

Andrew: What?

Micah: …did two chapters, and you’re like…

Andrew: Okay.

Micah: …”Can you read the first…”

Andrew: All right.

Micah: No, I got it.

Andrew: You take a break.

Micah: No, no. Bethanie, I’m going to read your e-mail.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: 24, from Bradenton, Florida, and she talks about Memory Charms, and she says:

“Hey all! Just watching Chamber of Secrets on ABC Family when I started to think quite a bit about Lockhart and his Memory Charms. Don’t you think that, with all of the spells available in the magical world, ‘obliviate’ would have some sort of magical anecdote? I would think reversing a Memory Charm would be on the same level as mending and growing bones, and unpetrifying people, etc. From reading the books it seems as if ‘Obliviate’ is one of very few incurable spells, think Lockhart in Book 5! Thoughts? Love the show. I look forward to every new episode! Can’t wait to hear your comments on the ‘DH: Part 2’ sneak peek!”

Richard: I think that they can reverse it to a certain extent, but I think the damage to Lockhart’s brain was so severe, that the Healers in St. Mungo’s just couldn’t do it for him.

Micah: Yeah. Well, what did – it’s interesting because what does Hermione then do? Because she’s wiped her parents’ memories clean.

Richard: Yeah, she said she could – she said – well, she implied – that she could go back there and fix it when the time would come.

Micah: Yeah.

Richard: So, I assume that there is obviously a counter-spell for it.

Micah: Yeah, there’s got to be something that can be done. I mean – but I wonder if it’s got to deal with intent. Lockhart was doing it with some sort of malicious intent. Just…

Andrew: Oh yeah, maybe there’s certain, different levels Of Obliviating you can do.

Richard: And the spell isn’t foolproof either, because if you remember at the start of Goblet of Fire, “The Quidditch World Cup,” one of the guys, the Obliviators had to keep wiping someone’s memory, one of the Muggle’s memories.

Micah: Right, right.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah. And I think it’s usually – when they do it, it’s event specific, isn’t it? For the most part? I mean, you have to remember what happened with Lockhart…

Richard: Yeah, I think so.

Micah: …was kind of an odd situation.

Richard: It was his entire life, wasn’t it?

Micah: Yeah, but also remember, it was because Ron’s wand didn’t work, right? So, who knows…

Richard: Yeah, exactly.

Micah: …how that affected the spell.

Richard: Yeah, I think normally it would never be that powerful.

Micah: Yeah, I agree.

Andrew: Do you think they could have went back to the – found the authors that Lockhart stole the stories from and [laughs] bring them back to life?

[Richard laughs]

Micah: It’s possible.

Andrew: I would. Somebody should. All those poor people.

Micah: You’re right.

Muggle Mail: Weird Places People Listen to MuggleCast

Andrew: Okay. Richard, could you read the next e-mail? Please? Pretty please?

Richard: Yeah. This is…

Andrew: Will you, Richard?

Richard: I will.

Andrew: Okay.

Richard: This is from Kim, who is in Colorado, and she says:

“Hey guys, I have been in the boonies and away from internet access for a while, but got the most recent episode before I left. I’ve been gone mapping out some old caves in…”

Is that Colorado, I’m guessing?

Micah: Yeah.

Richard: C.O.?

Andrew: Yes.

Richard: [continues]

“…and sometimes like to listen to your podcasts while I’m working. I just happened to be listening to Episode 219 where you mentioned caves as a weird place to listen to MuggleCast. Why yes, I do listen to MuggleCast in caves. Just thought I would share this bit of irony with you. Love the show and thanks! You guys rock. Kim.”

Andrew: I thought that was funny. You know, we’ve been getting a lot of these “Weird Places” e-mails, and I think what we should do is make a list on, of all the places.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Micah, can you get on that, please?

Micah: Yeah, I’ll take care of that. [laughs]

Andrew: Thanks.

Micah: I just – I don’t actually – I think it’s gotten to the point now where I don’t want to know if [laughs] there are more people listening to us in caves, because – I don’t know.

Andrew: Why, are you afraid Osama’s going to write in?

Micah: Well, he might.

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Micah: I mean, he might enjoy our show.

Richard: I’m going caving in a couple of weeks.

Andrew: Are you?

Richard: Yeah. I shall bring my iPod and I will listen to MuggleCast there.

Andrew: Yay! And then e-mail us. [laughs]

Micah: I actually think it’s really cool…

Richard: Then I will e-mail you and then I will read out my own e-mail.

Micah: I think it’s cool…

Andrew: What?

Micah: …that people have all these different types of jobs and they listen to us when they work, and…

Andrew: Absolutely!

Micah: …they commute and go to school and – you know, you should pay attention in class, kids. Don’t listen to us, unless it’s really boring or something like that. But…

[Richard laughs]

Micah: No, I think it’s great. And they come from all over the world, too, we hear all this stuff.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: So…

Andrew: Yep.

Micah: …it’s really cool.

Muggle Mail: Dumbledore’s Dislike for Dementors

Andrew: It’s very fun to read those e-mails. Next e-mail comes from Casey, 16, of Middleton, Wisconsin.

“Hello! In response to Episode 222’s Chapter-by-Chapter, although I agree with many of the reasons you brought up on why Dumbledore doesn’t like Dementors, I think there was one you missed. Dumbledore’s father Percival went to Azkaban with the Dementors for attacking the Muggles who attacked Ariana. He later died there, too. I think that Dumbledore would see the Dementors as just another reminder of his father, Ariana, and the rest of his dead family. I don’t think that Dumbledore necessarily wanted to forget about his family, I just think that the Dementors were an added reminder of his tragic past. Thanks for reading. Stay awesome.”

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s a really good point.

Micah: Good e-mail.

Andrew: Mhm. And Micah, let’s – go ahead. Next e-mail.

Muggle Mail: Ben’s Accurate Prediction in Episode 1

Micah: Next e-mail is anonymous and it’s about Ben, so it says:

“Hi MuggleCast, I was recently listening to your first episode for the first time in many years, and almost fell over. Did you know that Ben cracked the entire series in Episode 1? At 19:56 to 20:42, Kevin asks, ‘Now, have you heard the theory that Harry, or Harry’s scar, is a Horcrux?’ Ben replies that, since Harry must destroy all the Horcruxes before he can kill Voldemort, that would mean that, ‘Harry would have to first kill himself, then kill Voldemort, which really doesn’t seem very likely.’ I just had to point out that Ben cracked the whole plot of the seventh book twenty minutes into your very first episode! Awesome. You should play that flashback on the show!”

Andrew: I don’t have it but I think that’s very interesting.

Micah: Yeah.

Richard: That was a very popular theory, though, in fairness.

Andrew: It was. It was. [laughs]

Richard: I had the same theory as well way, way back…

Andrew: Awww.

Richard: …that Harry was also a Horcrux.

Andrew: Well, too bad you weren’t on Episode 1. [laughs]

Micah: And you should have written a book.

[Richard laughs]

Micah: You could have written a book and made money off of it, Richard.

Andrew: Yeah.

Richard: I have to be honest with you that I did not care that much.

Andrew: Oh. [laughs] But now you do.

[Micah laughs]

Richard: Now I’m furious with myself.

Muggle Mail: Episode 222’s Dueling Club

Andrew: Richard, I’m just going to briefly talk about this next e-mail. We got this really long e-mail from Katie, 18, of New York. She was very upset about our Dueling Club in Episode 222. I’m not going to read this whole e-mail because it is very long, but she wrote:

“Are you kidding me?! Sirius would not lose to Karkaroff. First of all, I am so sick of you guys calling Sirius immature and reckless, and in this episode you made him seem like an incompetent wizard whose only attribute was that he was an Animagus. Let us start there, then. It is extremely difficult to become one, and you have to be a very talented wizard to accomplish it, and he did it when he was a teenager at school. Not to mention he was at the top of his class at Hogwarts with James. He escaped his evil family at the age of sixteen, something that couldn’t have been easy to accomplish. He was powerful enough that Dumbledore allowed him to be the Potter’s Secret Keeper, and what did he do again? Oh yeah, he escaped Azkaban and then avoided the Ministry of Magic for months! The only reason he got caught was because he exposed himself.” [laughs]

Micah: He exposed himself? [laughs] Really?

Andrew: [laughs] He went streaking.

Richard: [laughs] He had a wild side.

Andrew: Katie, you bring up very good points. You’re right, he could definitely put up a good fight. I won’t take back our determination from last episode’s Dueling Club, but you do bring up good points.

Micah: Yeah. No, I think she brings up great points, but I think one of the things – because we got a lot of e-mails actually, like the one Katie sent in, and here’s the thing with the Dueling Club: it’s not necessarily about who would win, it’s about who presents the better argument, and I think that in this case, who presented the argument for Karkaroff made a stronger argument than the person who made the case for Sirius. And that’s what the judgment takes place on. It doesn’t take place on, “We all love Sirius, so Sirius would win,” you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: So, that’s just one thing to keep in mind, and that’s really what I wanted to say. So…

Muggle Mail: Birthday Shout-Out

Andrew: All right. Well, that was well said. Richard, how about you read our final e-mail today before Chicken Soup?

Richard: All right. This is from Gabrielle, 13, from Colorado Springs, and she says:

“I just started to listen to MuggleCast and really enjoy listening. I really wanted to tell you that my ten-year-old sister just got in to the whole ‘Harry Potter’ books. She loves them a lot, and her birthday is coming up and wanted to say happy birthday to her in a special way. I then thought of MuggleCast and how much I love it, too. I think that she would love it to hear a special happy birthday from MuggleCast. Thank you so much. Gabrielle.”

Well, Happy Birthday!

Andrew: [singing] “Happy Birthday -” [back to normal voice] Unless I’m mistaken here, it doesn’t look like she says the name of her sister.

Richard: She doesn’t, which is a bit unfortunate.

Andrew: Yeah, that is unfortunate. [laughs] But Happy Birthday!

Richard: [laughs] Happy Birthday, Gabrielle’s sister!

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Micah: Happy Birthday!

Richard: Whoever you are.

Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul

Andrew: And finally today, Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul. This one comes from Lauren Utter, 15, of Salt Spring Island, Canada. What a name for a town, Salt Spring Island. That sounds very refreshing. [laughs]

“Hi guys, I’m a fairly recent fan of your podcast and I just wanted to thank you for keeping me up to date on all the ‘Harry Potter’ news and for providing an excellent ‘Harry Potter’ podcast. I am currently on a three month student exchange in France and am very home sick. I listen to your podcast on the way in to school and it prepares me for a day where I don’t understand half of what is going on around me. Thank you oh so much for bringing a little bit of home to me and for the daily laugh that listening to your conversations bring. All the best. Lauren.”

And she says that this e-mail is also a submission for Weird Places to Listen to MuggleCast, being a school bus in France. So, cool stuff. Thank you, Lauren. And a couple of announcements before we wrap up today. Micah, tell us about this fan art book. What’s this about?

Announcement: Fan Art Book

Micah: Yeah, one of our staffers, really, has taken the lead – Keith Hawk is doing a great job putting together this fan art book, and all the proceeds are going to be going to charity. And we just got the green light to move ahead with the book from the people we needed to speak with. So, what we’re doing right now is if there are artists out there that have spoken with Keith already, and are looking to get the necessary forms and pieces of art to him, you have until April 17th to be able to do that. And if there are people listening to the show right now who want to be involved in this project – it’s going to be a really great book. It’s going to be a book of Harry Potter fan art that kind of chronicles the series from Sorcerer’s Stone through Deathly Hallows, and it’s really going to be something that I think a lot of people are going to enjoy, and it’s done by the fans for a great cause. So, if you’re interested in submitting art to Keith, you can send him an e-mail, keith at staff dot mugglenet dot com, and he’ll send you the appropriate forms to fill out and let you know what you need to do. So, we have, I think, right now over two hundred pieces of art already.

Andrew: Wow.

Micah: We’re looking to get probably over three hundred.

Andrew: Wow.

Micah: And the thing is here – kind of a little disclaimer, that there is no guarantee that your art will be used in the book, but obviously the more we get, the better in terms of being able to put this thing together. So, if you’re interested, go ahead and send him an e-mail, and April 17th, as of right now, is the deadline.

Andrew: And I imagine when you guys go to select the art that will actually be in the book, you’re not looking for the best art, but rather you’re looking for the best mix.

Micah: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Andrew: Different styles, different looks, themes, etc.

Micah: Right. I think the point is to make the book as unique as possible and, like you said, have a lot of different – coming from different angles and…

Andrew: Different methods.

Micah: …different forms of art, I guess, or…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …however you – if you draw, if you paint, if you made it on your computer, let’s say, through some program – I think we’re looking at all different types of things. And Keith is really the one who is behind this, who is spearheading this, and he’s done a great job with it and hopefully we’re able to get it out. Looking, I think, to get it to a publisher in time for the last movie to kind of coincide with that. Hopefully that does happen, but it’s going to be for a great cause, we’re working on the charity right now.

Show Close

Andrew: All right. Very good. And also two more announcements. First, LeakyCon. We talked about it earlier this episode. Just visit for lots of information about the amazing conference that’s going to be happening in July in Orlando. And finally, as I’ve been telling you about for the past few episodes, be sure to check out a new podcast I’m doing along with my friend Ben: HYPE. Just visit We’re recording a new episode right after recording MuggleCast. So, there will be a new episode out along with a new MuggleCast episode. Thanks everyone for listening! I’m Andrew Sims.

Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Richard: And I’m Richard Reid.

Micah: Andrew, I will see you on Wednesday.

Andrew: Oh, right! We’re going to see How to Succeed together! I’m so excited!

Micah: I’ll stay positive. I’m so excited…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: …to see this! No, I’m sure it’s…

Richard: I was positive, but now that I’ve not been invited to this, I’m not feeling too great now.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: It’s in New York, Richard. [laughs] If it was in London I would have invited you.

Richard: That does not matter.

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Richard: It is the thought that counts.

Micah: Yeah. Well, Richard you’re invited if you want to go.

Richard: Sweet.

Andrew: Yeah, because Micah doesn’t really want to go. I do, though.

Micah: No, I think it will be a good show. Eric talks – he says it’s such a great show and…

Andrew: Well, Eric hasn’t seen it yet, so…

Micah: Well, Eric was in it, right? I mean, he’s…

Andrew: Right, in his local performance, yeah.

Micah: And his interview, actually, with Dan Radcliffe – he sat down and spoke to him as he mentioned on the last episode – should be available now.

Andrew: Posted this week.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Some time this week, yeah, on, so keep an eye out for that. All right, we’ll see everybody next time for Episode 224!

Micah: Peace!

Andrew: Bye!