Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #318, Queenie
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: This is MuggleCast, the Harry Potter podcast discussing everything about J.K. Rowling’s wizarding world. This week’s episode is brought to you by Puffs. Some people are born to save the world from an evil wizard, and some people sit next to those people at magic school. Puffs, the off-Broadway play, is their story, which Mashable called “quite simply hysterical.” Now playing at the Elektra Theatre in New York. Tickets and more at PuffsThePlay.com. Save 10% on your ticket order by using code “MUGGLEPUFFS.” And by CanvasPeople.com. Bring one of your favorite photos to life on a beautiful 11 by 14 canvas for free; just pay shipping. Visit CanvasPeople.com and use code “MUGGLE” at checkout. And by Blue Apron. Check out this week’s menu, and get your first three meals free, including free shipping, by going to BlueApron.com/MuggleCast. Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 318. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Jeanna: And I’m…
Andrew: And joining us this week…
[Andrew and Jeanna laugh]
Andrew: … is Jeanna. Hi, Jeanna. Welcome back.
Jeanna: I never remember if I say my name in the beginning or not. [laughs]
Andrew: It’s okay. We didn’t rehearse, and that’s a new thing we’re doing.
Micah: You can blame it on me; I messed it up. I could have just said, “And Micah,” and then Andrew could have introduced you, and it would have been a lot better. It’s my fault.
Andrew: “I’m Micah,” and the fourth person is… [laughs]
Micah: Jeanna.
Andrew: Anyway, good to have you back, Jeanna.
Jeanna: I love coming back.
Andrew: Anyway, today we are going to have a character discussion on Queenie!
Eric: Yay.
Andrew: This is the first in a series of character discussions on Fantastic Beasts characters. We’ll be talking about her in a little bit.
News
Andrew: But first, little bit of news talking about another Fantastic Beasts character. The Holiday actor Jude Law…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … has spoken out about playing young Dumbledore. He was asked by BBC London recently about being cast in the role.
Micah: Which holiday is he…?
Eric and Jeanna: It’s The Holiday.
Micah: Oh, The Holiday. Okay.
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: The Holiday. You know that great movie?
Micah: I’ve heard it’s amazing. I really have heard great things about it, that it’s probably one of the best movies ever made.
Eric: It’s actually really good. Everyone should watch it.
Micah: Okay.
Andrew: And you haven’t watched it yet, so get on it, Micah.
Eric: [sighs] Micah.
Micah: Is it about…? What holiday is it about, though?
Eric and Jeanna: Christmas.
Jeanna: Micah…
Andrew: Come on, that’s a spoiler.
Micah: There’s no Hanukkah moment?
Jeanna: I just can’t believe that this is the movie where… his claim to fame.
Eric: It’s a really good movie.
Andrew: It’s seriously so good.
Jeanna: It is so good, but he’s done so much.
Andrew: [laughs] Anyway, so he was asked about this, about being cast as young Dumbledore, and he says, “My first port of call, I hope, is to meet J.K. Rowling and to talk exactly about that [referring to Dumbledore and Grindelwald’s relationship] and find out who he is, and who she wants him to be, and learn a little bit more about her vision of this great man as a young man.”
Eric: I love it.
Andrew: Yeah, so I should have prefaced this by saying he was specifically asked about the Dumbledore/Grindelwald romance. It seems he’s aware of it, right?
Jeanna: I get the notion from just his wording of it that he has read and is a fan of these books.
Micah: Well, that would be nice.
Andrew: Yeah, and maybe while he was being cast, they said, “Hey, Dumbledore is a gay character; he’s going to have feelings for Grindelwald,” and maybe they didn’t go any further into it than that.
Eric: Wait, what’s that? A Dumbledore actor who’s read the Harry Potter books? What?
[Andrew laughs]
Jeanna: Exactly. I’m like, “Not all Dumbledores are created equal.”
Andrew: That would be very exciting.
Eric: Yeah, I would be super excited. It sounds like it. I think that’s the interesting part of his remark, though, now, where he says, “I’m going to talk to J.K. Rowling, see what kind of young man she imagines him to be.” I think his question is, as is all of our questions, how relevant will it be to the plot? How relevant will Dumbledore being a gay character be to the plot of the movie? I’m guessing very little, but I mean, ultimately, as long as he’s aware of it, as long as it’s given that weight in the script, then it should be fine.
Micah: I just like the fact that his first order of business seems to be that he’s going to go talk with the author of the series and the person who created the character. You don’t always hear that.
Eric: She’s also the screenwriter, so there’s that. But I mean, because that’s ultimately… I don’t know what kind of open set sort of thing most movies have, but because she’s writing it, I think that probably helps, or will help, his acting.
Jeanna: I get the sense she wasn’t physically on the set that often with Fantastic Beasts. And maybe that was just what they tried to show in the extended features, but they made it seem like when she came to visit the set the first time, it was a big deal.
Eric: I mean, the bonus features that I saw have her on set almost constantly with Heyman and Yates, breaking down each and every scene, each and every set.
Jeanna: She was in the same outfit for pretty much all those extended features.
Eric: Hey, maybe it’s a cool outfit.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: What’s wrong with that?
Andrew: No, I’m with Jeanna. I’m not sure she was on the set so much. But the point is, Jude Law, he does seem to care, so that’s good. Just like he really… you could tell he could really care about his role in The Holiday as well…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … so I think he’s carrying those skills over to Fantastic Beasts.
Micah: I did see, though, that he’s going to be in King Arthur, right? Which is going to be released later on this year?
Eric: Oh, wow.
Andrew: No, I think sooner than that, right? I keep seeing the billboards. But yeah, James points that out as well. “King Arthur movie release date.” Googling it.
Micah: Do it.
Andrew: May 12.
Micah: Oh.
Andrew: Very soon.
Eric: That’s two weeks.
Micah: Two weeks, yeah.
Eric: Who’s he playing in King Arthur?
Andrew: King Vortigern.
Micah: Dumbledore.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: I mean, he might as well play Merlin at this point, if that’s the direction he’s going.
Andrew: Yeah. He’s playing King Vortigern. I’m not aware of this King Arthur story, so sorry for pronouncing the name wrong. But this is also a Warner Bros. film, which may be one reason why he was considered for Fantastic Beasts. They kind of like to use the same actors, these studios. So yeah, actually, I don’t think the advanced reviews of King Arthur have been very good, so it may not be worth seeing.
Micah: Oh. Not as good as The Holiday?
Eric: Well, it looks like he’s got a show… he’s got a West End show right now called Obsession.
Micah: And what holiday do they celebrate in that?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I’m not sure; I’d have to look it up. But it’s at the Barbican Center in London, so very interesting, and he’ll finish that up. Apparently Fantastic Beasts 2 is going to start filming this summer, so pretty soon.
Andrew: Yeah. All right, well, before we get to our discussion of Queenie today, we actually have some feedback on Theseus. That was our main discussion last week. But first we want to say for one more time that you should definitely go see Puffs, right, Micah?
Micah: That’s right. Well, I don’t think it has to be the last time, but officially, right?
Andrew: We’ll bring it up again.
Micah: Yeah, I’m sure we will bring it up again. I definitely would encourage people who either live in the New York City area or are visiting in the next several months to check out Puffs the play off-Broadway at the Elektra Theatre. They actually just hit 100 performances, and any Potter fan will enjoy this play. It’s funny, you will laugh out loud, you will have moments that you just, I think, will enjoy, because it does an amazing job of weaving in things from the books, things from the movies, and it chronicles the story of a Hufflepuff student who is at Hogwarts at the same time as Harry, Ron, and Hermione, and you get to see all the events take place from the perspective of the forgotten House that is Hufflepuff.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: And I know, Andrew, you’re planning on seeing it a little bit later on this summer. I’ve seen a couple of people on Twitter say that they’ve gone and seen it. At least one person I know that’s gone and seen it took a photo from there because of our recommendation, so hopefully they enjoyed it. But yeah, go and have a few good laughs for an hour and a half on the expense of Hufflepuff House.
[Andrew and Jeanna laugh]
Eric: We can bear the weight. We are resilient. Badger, badger, badger.
Andrew: So visit PuffsThePlay.com and you can use code “MUGGLEPUFFS” to save 10%, and thanks to them for their support of the show.
Episode 317 feedback
Eric: What’s this about Theseus?
Andrew: Yeah, so last week we spoke about Theseus, and we got a couple of responses about our discussion. This is first, from Viktor.
“Hi! Big fan from Sweden here! I realized something while listening to your latest episode. Theseus Scamander is, as you pointed out, named after the Greek hero who killed the Minotaur. But he didn’t slay the Minotaur alone; he was given a sword and (if I remember correctly) a ball of yarn from the princess Ariadne. She did this even though it was an act of treason, because Theseus was an enemy of her father the king, since she had fallen madly in love with him. The feeling was not mutual and Theseus abandoned her quickly after killing the minotaur. Okay, but so what? Well, the Italian name for Ariadne is Ariana! So my prediction is that Ariana Dumbledore has some sort of connection with Theseus, and that she either loved him or he abandoned her. Possibly both! Anyway, great show! Keep up the good work!”
Jeanna: Wasn’t Ariana a small child?
Eric: Yeah, she’s prepubescent.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Micah: Wow.
Andrew: Well, but still, I mean, there is some sort of reference here, at least. Maybe it’s not a romantic connection, but…
Eric: No, I love that that was taken out, that that’s something that exists. Ariadne, Ariana. As we know from J.K. Rowling’s past, no name is an accident. Everything’s very well thought out in advance, and I think that this shows that Theseus may have a larger role as it pertains to Dumbledore than we previously thought.
Micah: Yep. And that was an email that came in, but I know we had a number of people over on Patreon who commented on our last episode with thoughts on Theseus, including Mark, who said, “What if the letter was cut because the story changed and it didn’t fit the movie anymore? I’m hesitant to draw conclusions from this letter. I don’t consider Lego games canon.”
Andrew: [laughs] Rude. Very rude.
Eric: I mean, it’s also on the… sorry.
Jeanna: I texted Andrew about this earlier in the week when I was re-listening to the episode. I believe that the letter is in the beginning, when Newt is on the boat. He pulls it out of his pocket.
Eric: I just rewatched the movie at length. I don’t remember him touching… because he grabs his suitcase…
Jeanna: He doesn’t; it’s how it’s edited.
Andrew: So yeah, I watched it last night, and I was looking out for this, Jeanna, because you had just mentioned it to me. I didn’t see that. I didn’t see any letter, and I was specifically keeping an eye out for it.
Eric: The letter exists, because it appears on J.K. Rowling’s desk on her website, right? Or where was it we saw this besides the…?
Andrew: This was a prop. This was the Studio Tour.
Eric: Oh, the prop that SnitchSeeker… yeah, yeah. So this letter was written. It does exist; I don’t think that’s debatable. It is debatable whether or not it was going to ever be in the film, but the fact that this letter was written in such a way, I think, gives us license to discuss it as if it’s completely canon.
Andrew: Yeah, I agree. And I think they shot it for the movie, they were planning on it being in the movie, and Lego had this copy of the script that included this scene, so they kept it in the video game, and then I think they decided to not keep it in the movie, because right off the bat, they’re introducing this new character who nobody knows. I actually think that this whole newspaper montage at the beginning with warnings of Grindelwald, that was the new version of the letter.
Jeanna: That was in the version I saw.
Andrew: What, the newspaper?
Jeanna: The newspapers.
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: I see what you’re saying. I actually tend to agree with that. I go back to what was mentioned on the last episode, that to have the opening montage with Grindelwald and all the newspaper clippings, and then to go to Newt on a boat with a letter from his brother also talking about Grindelwald, I feel like it would have overplayed that hand and made him way more a part of the story earlier on than probably Heyman or Yates wanted him to be.
Eric: Sort of would have ruined the surprise.
Micah: But we also did, along the lines of the email we got from Viktor, we did hear from Sarah Johansen on Patreon, and she has two theories on Theseus Scamander, and is also a big mythology nerd.
“In the myth of Theseus and the Minotaur, after Theseus kills the Minotaur, he returns to Athens but forgets to change the sails on the boat from black to white. His father Aegeus sees the black sails and thinks his son has failed and been killed, so he jumps into what is now the Aegean Sea and kills himself. Could Newt hear news that Theseus has been killed (prompting him to take action in the war) but then later find out he survived?”
Eric: Maybe.
Micah: And then the second theory:
“Later in Theseus’s life (in mythology), he attempts to kidnap Persephone from the underworld and ends up getting trapped there until Heracles saves him during his 12th labor. Could this mean that Newt’s part in the war will be having to rescue his brother from ‘the underworld’?”
Eric: That’s quite interesting, this idea of Theseus as a hostage, or sort of the quest to save him being part of a plot of a future film. I’m interested. I also think… Theseus is a guy that the Ministry of Magic and all of Europe assigned to defeat Grindelwald, so he must be pretty competent.
Micah: Right, but I’m sure he’s flawed in some way, as most characters are.
Eric: Yeah, well, I mean, and Graves… yeah, clearly because of Graves being undercover, Grindelwald, and etc., he very easily could have gotten the jump on Theseus, because I think it’s said somewhere… we mentioned this last week; Colin Farrell said that they corresponded or something like that.
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: And so if Graves – undercover Grindelwald – is corresponding with Theseus, then he has his finger on exactly where Theseus is going.
Andrew: We have one more email here. This is from Felicia:
“Hey, guys! I was listening to Episode 317, and with the discussion of Legilimency, Eric says that he believes that when your mind is being read, you have flashbacks of what is being accessed. He says that because of Snape’s lessons, but I think that the only reason Harry is reliving the past the way that he does with those lessons is because it’s a teaching moment. Snape wants Harry to see what he is doing so he can better know how to combat it, so he sets it up for Harry to be acutely aware of what is going on, rather than trying to get in stealthily. Those are just my thoughts about it; feel free to discuss and rip my theory to shreds! No theory is safe!”
Eric: What do you guys think on that?
Andrew: Yeah, I agree with her. It makes sense.
Eric: Oh?
Andrew: Well, yeah. I mean, Snape is teaching him; she’s right.
Eric: Yeah, but why would he make that extra accommoda…? What, so there’s a third level of Legilimency that doesn’t make you relive…? My whole thing is when Harry hits Snape back, he sees the same thing, and Snape is forced to relive crying in a corner while his dad shouts. I don’t know. I’d be interested in rereading that scene in the chapter “Occlumency” in Book 5. But I’m pretty sure that it’s not stealthy. If it’s actually the spell Legilimens, and actually the… yeah, I don’t know. Interesting, though.
Andrew: Thank you, Felicia, for that. Before we get to our discussion on Queenie, we want to thank our advertisers this week. First of all, Canvas People. They have a very easy to use photo-to-canvas service that takes your favorite photo memories and turns them into beautiful artwork for you to enjoy every day. Instead of snapping that beautiful photo and letting it rot in your cell phone, you can bring that photo to life to put it on your walls at home, in your office, or as a great gift. Here’s a tailor-made Harry Potter idea: In honor of the 20th anniversary of the first Harry Potter book coming out, how about finding the earliest photo of you reading a Potter book or interacting with the fandom? Treat yourself for the 20th anniversary. Normally 11 by 14 canvases are priced at $69.99, but for a limited time, you can get one free 11 by 14 canvas – just pay shipping – by going to CanvasPeople.com and using promo code “MUGGLE.” Our other sponsor this week is Blue Apron. They are the number one fresh ingredient and recipe delivery service in the country. I’ve actually been getting ready to move; I think this is my final MuggleCast episode here in Los Angeles.
Eric and Jeanna: Aww.
Andrew: Bye!
[Eric and Jeanna laugh]
Andrew: And being so busy, it’s actually been great to have meals delivered to me, so dinner is just one less thing I have to worry about. So if you’re busy like I am right now, thankfully they’re easy to cook. Each meal comes with a step-by-step, easy to follow recipe card and pre-portioned ingredients. They can all be prepared in 40 minutes or less. You can also customize your recipes each week based on your preferences. I mean, someone like me, I’m a picky eater, but I can always find something on Blue Apron that I actually like, because I’m four years old. So you can find the type of food that you’re looking for week to week. Check out this week’s menu. Get your first three meals free with free shipping by going to BlueApron.com/MuggleCast. You will love how good it feels and tastes to create incredible home-cooked meals with Blue Apron, so don’t wait. That’s BlueApron.com/MuggleCast. Blue Apron is a better way to cook, and no, Micah, I still do not have a Slytherin green apron. But…
Eric: Oh, I didn’t tell you, Andrew, somebody…
Andrew: No, you did. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, okay.
Andrew: Go ahead, go ahead.
Eric: I have one for you.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Somebody… yeah, we got one in the MuggleCast P.O. box, a green apron for you.
Andrew: Yes. Katie sent that, right?
Eric: Yeah, Katie, I believe. [laughs] So when you get settled in your new place, I will mail it to you.
Andrew: Great.
Eric: And you can have a “Kiss the cook” photo inaugural kitchen use Slytherin green apron. You do have one.
Andrew: That sounds wonderful. I’m going to wear nothing but my green apron and send it to Micah with a wink emoji.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Sounds great.
Jeanna: We’ll have to get you some green oven mitts too.
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: Yes, yes, all of the above.
[Eric laughs]
Main Discussion: Queenie Goldstein
Andrew: All right, so Eric, let’s talk about Queenie.
Eric: Yes, let’s. So this is the inaugural character discussion of what will be a series of these, as we mentioned before. Basically, I went through Fantastic Beasts and created these sort of general outline discussions for each of the characters in the film. So we have the main four, and we’ll be getting into Graves as well; perhaps President Picquery. I did this for a couple of minutes; at first it’ll seem sort of like a book report. I’m like, “Oh, what is this character’s challenge in this film?” But it’s just really a rubric to discuss these characters as people themselves. It’s difficult not having an actual book to talk about these with, because you’d potentially get more insight into their head, but just based on the scenes that they’re in, the decisions that they make, I think we’ll be able to have some rich discussion about each of these characters. That was my thesis.
Andrew: Let’s do it, then.
Eric: Okay. All right.
Andrew: Thank you. Good thesis.
Eric: [laughs] Good Theseus. You know, what’s interesting about Queenie is how late in the film she’s introduced. You actually get quite a lot of the film before her. She’s the last of the quartet to be introduced. I didn’t look up the timestamp exactly, but she’s basically…
Micah: Save the best for last.
Eric: I mean, yeah.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Well, yeah, but we’re doing her first. We’re putting her in her rightful place here, because I think Queenie is awesome.
Andrew: And I actually do kind of find it interesting that Tina, Newt, and Jacob all meet – well, all run into each other initially – within a span of five seconds.
Jeanna: That is true, yeah.
Eric: So I had trouble finding out… I mean, again, the other characters also have a more clearly defined challenge. Queenie is the one whose unique gifts allow her to assist with what they’ve got going on, but ultimately – and this is not in a bad way – but she is sort of the love interest character for the Jacob character, and does not necessarily have her own individual challenge. Her challenge in this film is tied to the others. She’s extremely competent, she excels at doing what she needs to do to save the day multiple times, but I had trouble coming up with what her individual character arc is in this film.
Jeanna: But her purpose isn’t just to be Jacob’s love interest.
Eric: Yeah, no, it’s true, but how would you describe her character arc in this movie?
Jeanna: I mean, I have points to make as we go, so that’s why I’m like, “Hmm, I don’t know where to start.” But I think just her main thing is to make sure Tina stays safe, but to also kind of push Tina to do more, because Tina is always a little apprehensive about things.
Eric: Yeah, okay.
Jeanna: I don’t know. There’s more to say as we go.
Andrew: Her very first line is, “You brought boys home?”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: And from there you kind of get the impression that she’s looking out for Tina.
Micah: It was very interesting to go through some of the responses that we got from listeners, both on Twitter and on Patreon, because I think there was some preconceived notions about Queenie, both before the movie was released and based on your first introduction to her, that she was kind of just the sex appeal of the movie, and that was all that you were going to get out of her. But as the movie goes on, you learn that she’s an incredibly powerful individual, and that what she does at different points are actually integral…
Jeanna: Yes.
Micah: … to the safety of both… actually, of all three characters. I mean, she doesn’t have a major role that she plays at the very end – it’s more Newt and Tina – but if she doesn’t rescue them from MACUSA the way that she does, because of the abilities that she has, then the movie never progresses, right? They’re both gone. So I think a lot of people who saw this film went into it with one opinion of her, and came out with a completely different. I think one person said on Twitter – and I’m blanking on who it was – but, “Oh, Queenie was just the person that was going to get my boyfriend to be able to go see the movie…”
[Eric laughs]
Jeanna: Wow.
Eric: That’s offensive. That’s really offensive, actually.
Micah: But the point is… but you pointed out the fact her first line, and even what she’s wearing – or what she’s not wearing – when Newt and Jacob come into the apartment, there’s an initial impression of her, which I think she kind of sheds throughout the course of the film.
Eric: Well, I think she, as a character, embraces that femininity. It’s not a weakness; it’s her strength, right? I think… here’s J.K. Rowling’s own words on Queenie. This comes from one of the special features, actually, which was on… it was a segment on Queenie and Tina, but here’s what J.K. Rowling says about Queenie. She says, “Queenie is much more relaxed than Tina, but is someone that is underestimated constantly.” And then she says, “She’s a Legilimens, so the girl who’s always looked at can see more deeply than anyone else.”
Jeanna: I loved that.
Eric: So yeah, it’s very clear that J.K. Rowling has a lot of intent with this character, and it’s intentionally unexpected that Queenie has so much more going on, that she’s underestimated constantly.
Jeanna: Well, kind of what Micah said a few minutes ago, she’s integral to them getting out of the jams they’re in, because she knows how to play Abernathy when everyone is in the case and she’s trying to get them out of MACUSA.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Jeanna: She knows exactly how to play Abernathy with her womanly ways by saying, “Oh, there’s lady things in the case. Do you want to see?” She knows he’s not going to look, but she knows how to play him. She also saves Jacob a few minutes prior from – and I never remember his name – but the guy who wants to Obliviate him, or is taking him to get Obliviated. She plays him like a fiddle by using her Legilimens by saying, “Oh, do you want me to tell your girl that you’re seeing another girl? No? Okay, then I’m going to take this guy.”
Eric: Yeah, she actually… and I feel like she’s got tabs on pretty much everybody at the Ministry because she just happens to be able to read their minds at any given time. I feel like she knew that relationship was happening sooner than what we see.
Andrew: Well, and that kind of blackmail sort of thing could be what she uses to her advantage in later Fantastic Beasts movies. We’ve been speaking previously about, “Well, how can she continue to be relevant in the series?”, and it’s using that mind-reading to her advantage.
Eric: Well, and in this film, she is not put directly in front of Graves. Graves is not her boss; Graves is Tina’s boss, and so you really wonder what would happen between Grindelwald and Queenie if they ever were in close proximity. Queenie does break into his office, so that’s very useful with Jacob, but it’s not tested, so Queenie’s limits of her powers are not really tested in this film. We’re going to see more of that, obviously, in the future, and I simply can’t wait.
Jeanna: What I find interesting is the fact that the Ministry doesn’t know that she’s a Legilimens. Everyone she interacts with, to my understanding, doesn’t know that she has this power.
Eric: Right.
Jeanna: And I think that’s very interesting that she works at the Ministry, and one, no one has picked up on it, and two, she hasn’t said, or Tina hasn’t said, “My sister can do this,” or “I can do this.” Because she would probably have a higher paying job than Tina if she did.
Eric: Well, and here’s the interesting thing: We got a couple comments about this, too, about whether or not the wider wizarding world knows about Queenie, and it very is clear that they don’t, especially her co-workers, like you were just saying. But the interesting thing is that as soon as two complete strangers walk into their home, she immediately reveals her gifts to Jacob and Newt. So she’s not exactly close to the cuff about what she can do; it’s just somehow it’s still not out, right? She starts reading Jacob’s mind within seconds.
Jeanna: But doesn’t Newt call her out on it?
Eric: Yeah, I mean, but she’s revealed her gift at that point.
Jeanna: That is true. I also find…
Micah: But I wonder if that’s because she gets a sense for who people are based on her ability to read their mind. She knows whether or not she can trust them.
Eric: And maybe because the fact that Tina is bringing her home, and Tina is so high-strung that they’re going to need her talent for interaction.
Micah: Yep.
Jeanna: I also find it interesting, while we’re on the topic of her Legilimens, that as soon as Jacob at the dinner table says, “Can you stop reading my mind for a second?” – and he says it very calmly – she immediately physically recoils. She sits back, and she’s like, “Oh, I’m sorry,” because she’s obviously been told so often, “Don’t do this. Don’t show people this.” You can tell she’s been told to put it on the back burner, and so when she’s finally able to use it and have some fun and let loose, she’s okay with it, but as soon as anyone says, “Can you not?”, she’s so trained to stop and apologize.
Micah: Right. And I think that’s due in part to the fact that she just seems to naturally have this ability, as opposed to trying to force it onto somebody else. I always got the sense from Snape, when he’s teaching Harry Occlumency, that he’s intentionally trying to get into Harry’s mind, that it’s something that he’s learned.
Eric: It’s intrusive.
Micah: But it’s been something that he has almost taught himself, whereas Queenie seems to be more of a natural Legilimens; she’s born with this ability, so she has to find different ways to be able to control it. It’s not something that she necessarily wants to do, or is trying to do, or has been taught to do at school. This is something that’s inherently part of her, which is different from what we’ve seen in the Potter series.
Eric: It’s ultimately incredibly different. I wish J.K. Rowling had answered my question that we did last week. She did not yet, by the way. Update, life update: no answer.
Andrew: [laughs] Happy Birthday, Eric. No response.
Eric: But here’s a quote from J.K. Rowling, anyway, that was also on the Tina and Queenie special feature.
Micah: But not in response to you.
Eric: And this actually… not in response to my question, but this gives a lot of insight. This is why… I heard this, and I was like, “Oh, crap, there are spoilers in these segments.” But this is just a clearer picture of what it is Queenie can do. Here’s the quote from Jo: “While Queenie could read your mind right now, she doesn’t always draw the right conclusions from what she’s reading. It’s like she can constantly hear a tape of what you’re thinking, but she’s not that good at interpreting it, so she still makes mistakes about people. That’s just fun to write.” So it comes to her like a tape of whatever you’re currently… whatever happens to be the top of your mind, she hears it like it were a radio, I guess.
Micah: It reminds me of that movie with Jim Carrey. Is it…?
Eric: Which?
Jeanna: Liar Liar?
Micah: No, no… oh, well, that too. But there’s also a movie where he plays God, or he takes on the…
Eric: Oh, Bruce Almighty.
Micah: Bruce Almighty, yeah. And there are moments where he’s listening… he can just hear everything that’s going on around him, and I guess…
Eric: Oh, that’s right.
Micah: It just made me think of that, which I’m not sure if that’s very similar to Queenie, that she hears literally everything based on her interactions with people.
Jeanna: She explicitly tells Newt in the case when they’re talking about Leta that she can’t help hear people. She can’t really turn it off.
Eric: Oh, yeah, you’re right. But she can also pry deeper.
Jeanna: She could go deeper, but no matter what, she kind of just hears everything, is what I got from that.
Eric: She’s constantly being berated with these voices.
Micah: I wonder what the Niffler is thinking.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Jeanna: I wonder if she can read creatures. I’m going to assume no, but that would be cool.
Eric: Oh my God.
Andrew: I’m going to assume no too.
Jeanna: That would be cool, though. If she has trouble with Brits, I assume she’ll have extreme difficulties with creatures.
Andrew: Right. But she could be Newt’s assistant, if she were able to read the minds of creatures. That would be incredibly valuable to him.
Eric: Yeah, she’d be like a familiar, like a link, a bridge between worlds.
Andrew: Right. An animal speaker.
Eric: Well, and that goes to one of the categories here, her role in the greater world, her role in the quartet. I wanted to talk about it… I mean, so she works for MACUSA, which is a big deal, but she’s sort of a menial laborer. Her quote is, “The job ain’t that glamorous. I spend most days making coffee, un-jinxing the John.” So she is doing sort of secretarial type stuff, not living up to her full grand potential, and that goes back to what J.K. Rowling was saying as well, that she’s constantly underestimated. I think that, given the rise of the war that’s coming, and the rise of Grindelwald, and how central Newt is sure to be in those events, Queenie will also have a large part to play in taking him down.
Jeanna: I definitely think she will, out of all of them. I mean, obviously Tina will, because they end up together, but I think Queenie will for sure have a large role due to her powers.
Andrew: Yep, I agree.
Micah: I think this ties back, though, to Jeanna’s point about Queenie. And in terms of her role at the Ministry, it seems that because they’re unaware of her abilities, that she has this particular job, but if they were aware, what would her potential be at…? I say the Ministry, but I mean MACUSA. It would stand to reason that with those types of abilities, that she would be far better positioned, even than Tina, within the hierarchy of MACUSA.
Eric: That’s a really good point.
Jeanna: She could have been Graves.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: Interrogating.
Jeanna: Because Graves is Seraphina’s right-hand man, so she could have been Graves, and maybe Grindelwald could have taken her.
Micah: He still can. I mean, she’s a very powerful weapon, if you think about it. I mean, there’s a couple of different things, because her ability to not necessarily read situations the right way could mean potential danger for Newt and others in the future, because if she reads somebody the wrong way, or somebody’s pretending to be somebody that they’re not, that could be an absolute catastrophe.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: But also, if she’s captured and she’s used by Grindelwald for the purposes of his cause, that could be just as bad.
Andrew and Jeanna: Yeah.
Andrew: I think there’s a quote in the featurette that Eric put down here. Yeah, J.K. Rowling said, “While Queenie could read your mind right now, she doesn’t always draw the right conclusions from what she’s reading. It’s like she can constantly hear a tape of what you’re thinking, but she’s not that good at interpreting it, so she still makes mistakes.” I could imagine scenes in future movies where she does make a mistake, and then they realize that they have to be a little more cautious with what they’re learning from Queenie. Or maybe she’ll warn them further.
Eric: Yeah. And then we can talk about Queenie’s relationship with her sister, too, which is in that initial dinner scene. It’s explained that they are orphans; they’re sort of all each other has in the world. They live together. Here’s the quote: “We’re orphans. Ma and Pa died of Dragon Pox while we were kids.” From the special features, Alison Sudol – the actress who plays her – actually talks about how the relationship between Tina and Queenie is perhaps understated. It’s not pointed out as much in the film. You can see it absolutely within when they relate to each other, but it’s not like they’re sisters constantly declaring their love for each other, right? It’s like they work very well together as a unit in the film, and you can see that in every scene that they’re in, but the way Alison put it was, “I really thought it was just such an indication of Jo’s skill as a screenwriter to know that you don’t always have to express the feeling on the line,” meaning on the line of the script. “You don’t need to prove how much you love somebody if you love them enough, and that’s how I feel with Tina and Queenie.” So it’s just clearly there was a lot of character work and attention to character done before or outside of the actual dialogue of the film, where these characters do relate to each other. And they’re close, they have a sisterly bond, they’ve known each other all of each other’s lives, and it doesn’t need to be pointed out; you can just see it when you watch the film. All right, and then just wrote down here some standout scenes and standout lines that Queenie has during the film. Of course, she’s the one who is able to probe Leta Lestrange out of Newt. The whole reason that we know who Leta Lestrange is, that she’s this person that Newt had a relationship with of some sort…
Jeanna: Friendship.
Eric: Yeah, friendship, comes from Queenie basically saying, “Who’s that girl?” And Newt doesn’t want to talk about it, but clearly he’s thinking about it. Here’s the actual dialogue, because as I was going through, I wrote it. But this is really interesting, because you tend to forget the little subtle nuance of what these words are. She says, “Leta Lestrange. I’ve heard of that family. Aren’t they kind of… you know…?” And Newt says, “Please don’t read my mind.” And then she keeps doing it. He says, “Sorry, I asked you not to.” She says, “I know, I’m sorry, I can’t help it. People are easiest to read when they’re hurting.” “Anyway, it was a long time ago.” She says, “That was a real close friendship you had at school,” and Newt says, “Neither of us really fitted in at school,” and he says, “so we became quite…” She says, “You became good friends for years.” And then she says, “She was a taker; you need a giver.” So Queenie knows all about whatever happened between Newt and Leta Lestrange.
Jeanna: I don’t know if she does. I don’t know if she knows all of it.
Eric: To make that judgment, though – “She was a taker; you need a giver” – means that she must have gleaned a golden egg out of Newt’s mind just then.
Andrew: Could it have been because…? From what we have heard, Newt took the blame for a beast that Leta let out, so is that what she could mean by…?
Eric: A taker, yeah.
Andrew: Sort of take advantage of…? I don’t want to put it that way exactly, but he did take the blame.
Micah: It’s possible.
Andrew: Whereas a giver could be somebody who actually owned up to her own fault.
Jeanna: Yeah, that’s true.
Micah: Yeah, I mean, in that situation, I tend to think that she’s referring to her sister.
Eric: Oh, being a giver. Yeah, actually, that makes a lot of sense.
Micah: But as far as Leta Lestrange, what I find to be interesting there is that our real point of comparison is Bellatrix, but Bellatrix isn’t technically a Lestrange until she marries into the family, right?
Eric: Rodolphus and…
Micah: Yeah, I mean, there’s the whole Black family tree that ties in nicely in Order of the Phoenix, but I want to learn more. I want to know more about the Lestrange family, that these deep, dark roots go all the way back, at the very earliest, to the 1900s, if not before that.
Eric: And they have a reputation, even in the ’20s, for being maybe a little evil.
Jeanna: And what I gleaned from this interaction along with that is the fact that that reputation has made its way all the way to America, which I’m also wondering if these girls, Tina and Queenie, are pure-bloods, so they know of this prominent pure-blood family.
Eric: That’s right.
Jeanna: So I’m under the assumption that they are pure-bloods.
Eric: That’s really interesting. There are 28, FYI. I was reading this for some reason the other day. There are 28 pure-blood families that are “The Sacred 28,” I think it’s called. There’s something… it’s a bit weird; I’m not sure where this comes from, but I was looking up… the Minister for Magic at the time is referenced in the newspapers at the beginning of the movie, and his family is one of the pure-blood families. But based on previous Famous Witches and Wizards Cards and all this other stuff, we know that there will be a Minister for Magic who is sort of like a Fudge-type character who stays more or less the entire time of the film, so I imagine we’ll meet the president at some… it’s Hector, is his name. Hector something. I’m missing it. But anyway, the whole point of this is that he’s one of the 28 pure-blood families, and it makes sense that if there are only 28, that some of them would know each other, so there’s that.
Jeanna: 28 in America? Or London?
Eric: I don’t know. I’ve got to pen more research, I guess. The other thing about Queenie, though, and we do have to talk about this: She’s not prejudiced against No-Majes. Despite her government’s strict controls, she treats people like people, and she’s very quick to treat Jacob like a person, and in fact, the two of them hit it off quite spectacularly. I mean, watching their relationship develop throughout the film is sweet. I mean, we mentioned before; Jacob is the emotional weight of this film, how we’re seeing the world sort of through his eyes, even, and all of the heart belongs to him. Queenie, watching their relationship grow… and there’s a particular scene where Newt and Tina have taken off, and Queenie is left with the suitcase, and she hands it to Jacob, and he says, “You said I was one of youse,” and she says, “No, it’s too dangerous,” and puts her hand on his cheek. It’s a tender goodbye. It’s basically like, “We need to go and fight, but you know you can’t come,” and it’s this sad sort of heartbreaking… all of this film, really, their relationship is one of the reasons to watch, because I think there’s something so pure there. There’s something so kind and gentle and believable.
Micah: Isn’t that also where we got the mention of Jacob’s brother? Or am I making that up? Having died in the war?
Andrew: Jacob’s…?
Eric: Oh, it was one of the deleted scenes there.
Micah: Well, I think that was a deleted scene, and then also, there’s… it’s deleted, but it’s kind of more of an extended scene where they’re inside Macy’s…
Eric: Yes.
Micah: … and there’s an interaction that kind of furthers the development of the relationship between Queenie and Jacob, and it’s just before they go upstairs to deal with the Occamy. And so I’m interested as to why a lot of those scenes get removed. I mean, I know it’s pacing, and I know…
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Yeah, sorry.
Andrew: That’s it.
Micah: That has to go in every time, right? Because that’s their favorite word to use. But yeah, I mean, it definitely furthers the storyline between the two of them. It gives a little bit more context, it gives a little bit more background, it brings them closer together on certain subjects, so the fact that you leave that bit out… Eric, you were talking about the interaction on the rooftop, and then also in Macy’s. It seems like they were omitted for whatever reason, but it would have helped in terms of maybe giving a little bit of a glimpse into what is to come in the future.
Eric: Yeah. I mean, the other thing that Queenie and Jacob have in common, which is hilarious – it’s actually in the movie – is that unspoken rule of etiquette that if you make someone cocoa, they can’t leave. Remember, because Jacob is like, “Oh, they made us cocoa. We can’t ditch out on them; that wouldn’t be proper.” And then when Queenie and Tina discover that they’ve left, Queenie says, “But we made ’em cocoa,” and it’s really funny.
Jeanna: Which I think that was Queenie’s idea, was to send Tina in with the cocoa, because Tina was the one who was like, “You’re staying, and you’re staying in this room, so get comfortable,” and I feel like Queenie probably saw the… not abruptness or roughness, but the somewhat aggressive…
Andrew: It was, kind of.
Jeanna: Yeah, the aggressive way that she kind of bullied them into staying. So I bet Queenie… headcanon: Queenie was like, “Let’s make them cocoa, and you walk in with it, so that they feel okay.”
Andrew: “They’ll think you’re more friendly than you’re acting.” [laughs]
Eric: The other thing is, though, that she prevents Newt from leaving at first, because I forgot that this was a part of the movie, but Newt’s one big jerk move is he is going to just leave and reach for the door pretty much right when they arrive at Tina and Queenie’s. He goes to reach for the door, and Queenie, who can read his mind, is like, “Do you prefer strudel or…?” whatever the other option is.
Jeanna: “Pie or strudel?”
Eric: Pie or strudel. She engages him in conversation and therefore makes it impossible for him to, in good company or in politeness, excuse himself, and she keeps him there. But she’s really smart, she’s sharp as a tack, she’s like a whip, and she makes sure that… because it would be inappropriate for Newt to just leave; it’s a real jerk move for him to do that. But she kind of is the… she draws him into this contact with other humans, which I think is really important for Newt, because he’s this guy who would ordinarily prefer not to interact with humans. So she kind of sees what he needs and fills it. So the only thing we didn’t talk about, though, is the actress who plays Queenie, who I know Jeanna is a huge fan of. So Jeanna, you really like and have known about Alison Sudol for a while. Can you tell that story?
Jeanna: I realized the other day that I have been a fan of her for a decade, because I worked at Barnes & Noble around this time in 2007. I was working because I wanted to… oh, it was right after… anyway, I was working towards the Barnes & Noble release of Harry Potter 7, which came out in ’07, correct?
Eric: Yeah, 2007.
Jeanna: Yes, so I was working in Barnes & Noble a little prior to that, and her first CD – it was called One Cell in the Sea – was part of the allotted music that we were allowed to play over the speakers because she was a Barnes & Noble up-and-coming artist or some such.
Eric: Now, was that as Alison Sudol, or was that as…?
Jeanna: That was as A Fine Frenzy.
Micah: As Queenie.
Jeanna: [laughs] As Queenie.
Eric: So that’s her band, then. A Fine Frenzy?
Jeanna: Yeah, A Fine Frenzy was her band.
Eric: Okay.
Jeanna: She’s basically the… it’s her band, but the musicians aren’t talked about. They don’t really do interviews, so it was basically just her, but that was kind of the stage name, was A Fine Frenzy. And her music and shockingly Sara Bareilles’s were the only tolerable music that we could play, so we put her music on a lot whenever we worked.
Andrew: And you got into her.
Jeanna: Yes.
Andrew: Cool.
Eric: Because I remember you were really excited when she was cast in this film, because you knew who she was, and not a lot of people did.
Jeanna: Yes, I was very excited.
Eric: But her musical talent, which we’ll actually be experiencing soon, is something that it makes sense that there’s now an Ilvermorny school song deleted scene, right? Because she can show off her chops and actually sing it.
Jeanna: Yes. And to go along with that, I do think it’s interesting that she does have this large intricate role, and she was probably the most unknown out of the quartet, actor-wise.
Andrew: Yeah. So in Make the Music Connection today, we are going to play some of her songs, so Jeanna, you’re going to have a little throwback. You’re going to feel like you’re working at Borders again as we connect her music to the Fantastic Beasts series.
[Eric laughs]
Jeanna: Barnes & Noble.
Andrew: Oh, Barnes & Noble. Sorry. One other thing I wanted to point out was, again, I was re-watching it last night, and Tina’s very first interaction with Jacob, or her first time being in Jacob’s presence, she says something really rude about him. She says, “Who would marry that guy?” to Newt after he had been bitten by the Murtlap.
Eric: Oh, Tina says this, yeah.
Andrew: Yeah, Tina says it. And I feel like this might be a little bit of foreshadowing regarding Queenie and Jacob.
Jeanna: Yes.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: Assuming that those two do continue to fall for each other. Her sister’s first impression of this guy is, “Who would marry that guy?” Well, it’s probably going to be your sister, in a future Fantastic Beasts movie.
Eric: [laughs] Yeah, she hasn’t given him the time of day yet, though. I think as the time goes on… like the goodbye scene in the rain; they’re all pretty much feeling for the two of them.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s just some of that J.K. Rowling foreshadowing that we’ll come back to. We’ll watch this movie ten years from now when the final movie’s out, and we’ll be like, “Oh, look at that.”
[Jeanna laughs]
Eric: I agree.
Andrew: All right, is that all, then?
Eric: Yeah, unless we want to read some tweets.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: This is from April: “I hope the new movies go into her past, and we learn more about when she found out about her talent/gift of reading minds.” That’d be cool to see little Queenie being like, “I can read minds!”
[Andrew and Jeanna laugh]
Eric: Yes, I’m pretty sure that’ll be the exact scene, right there.
Andrew: Yeah, J.K. Rowling hired me to write it. I’ll do it. Amy says, “I really want to know if she can turn her powers off. Is she just doomed to always listen to others’ thoughts? What an awful way to live!”
Jeanna: I think she is doomed.
Andrew: I agree.
Eric: It’s a blessing and a curse.
Andrew: Would you three enjoy being in the presence of her, or would it drive you crazy?
Eric: I’m inclined to say I would enjoy her presence.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: For reasons other than she’s attractive?
Eric: Yeah, I mean, I think she’s a really cool character. Yeah, I don’t know. I’d just like to talk to her about her day and all that stuff, yeah.
Andrew: But it would drive me crazy.
Eric: I think that she can ignore… I think she can try and actively have a conversation without constantly reading your mind.
Andrew: I don’t trust her.
Eric: It would be really boring if you could have a conversation with somebody and then know, because they’re thinking of what they’re going to say right before they say it, to actually just have their responses first before it comes out of their mouth. That would be really dreadful for Queenie.
Jeanna: I’d want to be friends with her because I’d want to know what other people were thinking. I’d be like, “Tell me what they’re thinking.”
Andrew: [laughs] “Are they into me?”
Eric: It brings people-watching to the new extreme.
Andrew: Or being a wingman.
Eric: Well, you ever do that thing where you’re on a train in a public place, and you’re looking at these other people, and you’re like, “What is their life like? What are they thinking…? Or what are they saying to each other right now?”
Jeanna: Constantly.
Eric: And then you do that? Yeah, exactly. Queenie would be able to be that wingman who tells you all about it. Or wingwoman, but yeah.
Andrew: This is from Aashish: “Is Queenie the Luna of Fantastic Beasts? There are some parallels, the way she comes across on screen (mysterious, even a bit aloof).”
Jeanna: No.
Andrew: Yeah, I got that… no? I got that impression too.
Jeanna: I think Newt is the Luna of…
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: He is.
Micah: I was going to say the same thing, yeah.
Eric: That’s interesting.
Micah: I think Newt is more Luna. I’d agree with that. But as far as who she’s comparable to in Potter, I’m not sure.
Eric: Yeah. I like the idea that she’s not…
Andrew: Snape.
Eric: No, I like the idea that there’s no direct comparison, because ultimately we don’t want to see recycled types of characters in new stories. We want all new stuff. I think J.K. Rowling has managed to create a very unique character in Queenie, and in all of the four of this film. They’re not like… we haven’t really had a good experience with a No-Maj/Muggle before, so Jacob is that. And we don’t know anybody who prefers the company of animals over humans – maybe Luna – but that’s Newt.
Micah: Hagrid.
Jeanna: Actually, at C2E2, I was at the Evanna Lynch panel, and Evanna basically said, yeah, she prefers the interaction of animals to… Luna would rather, in the beginning, be with animals than people, because people are just kind of rude to her.
Micah: Hagrid also has that affinity for beasts.
Eric: Yeah, you’re right.
Micah: But yeah, I agree with you, as far as it’s good not to have necessarily a direct one-to-one comparison for some of these characters, because we are going to meet younger versions of other characters that we already know, so to have new fresh characters is a good thing.
Andrew: Let’s read one more here. This is from Lauren. She says, “I want to know why she chose to be an assistant, as she is clearly talented. Why is she not an Auror like Tina? Maybe bad grades in school?”
Eric: Yeah, there’s an opportunity here to talk about the really brilliant people… even Einstein got bad grades in math, but just they were seeing so far outside the box. There’s also, now I wonder, though, really a clear question of was Teenie taught either by her parents – like Katy suggested in a tweet – taught by her parents to keep her ability to herself?
Micah: Did you call her Teenie?
Eric: Oh, I didn’t mean to.
Andrew: That’s what Queenie calls her.
Eric: Oh, yeah. You know what? Queenie does call Tina “Teenie.” It’s in the film. It’s in the film. Somebody suggested that Queenie might have been a bully. Andy Iskander said,
“I would love to see how she grew up with her power. Was it difficult as a child? Did that lead to bullying? Or maybe she was the bully, knowing everyone’s secrets? Did that ever cause a rift between her and Tina growing up? Would love to hear just some insight into this from Jo.”
I think it’s clear that Queenie’s abilities are hidden from the public at large. As I said before, she’s not shy at all about introducing her powers to strangers, but there might be more to that than we knew. But at the same time, did she grow up repressing her skills?
Jeanna: I think…
Eric: Not to… yeah, go on.
Jeanna: I think for the most part, she does repress her skills for most of her life, and I think it depends on the stranger. She felt warmth in this, especially from Jacob and kind of from Newt, I bet, that this was a safe place, so she could be free with her powers. But I have a feeling she grew up and was told, “Don’t do this. Don’t let people know about this.”
Micah: Well, it may also depend how early on the parents passed away from Dragon Pox, and what their situation was like following that, right? In terms of the environment that they were brought up in. Remember, the world in which they’re living now is not the equivalent of what we know when we go into the Potter series.
Eric: Right.
Micah: There’s a lot of turmoil happening in America as it relates to the wizarding world, and so I wonder, since it’s a common theme in this particular film to repress that magical ability, perhaps she grew up under similar circumstances and is still living with a bit of that, right? And I think probably just as much as anything else, she chooses not to show this ability to advance herself at the Ministry or MACUSA because she’s afraid of what that might mean, and how she might be used, and how she might be perceived, and what happens if somebody else comes into control. We don’t know what the feeling is on people’s ability to read other people’s minds. It could be seen as very much a stigma. I just think that it ties into one of the major themes of this film, which is… and you see the result of what happens when people choose to repress their magical ability.
Eric: Right.
Micah: It manifests itself in a way that people like Grindelwald are trying to take advantage of.
Eric: It’s very destructive, yeah. Well said.
Andrew: All right, should we wrap it there, then, on Queenie?
Eric: Yeah, I think that concludes.
Make the Music Connection
Andrew: Except for Make the Music Connection that we’re about to play.
Eric: Hey-o. I can’t wait for this. So Jeanna, you picked all of these songs for us to make the connection.
Jeanna: And I can’t even remember what I picked at this point. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, okay.
Andrew: Well, then, let’s have you go first.
Micah: And chances are we’re not going to know the song. I’m just going to put that out there.
Andrew: [laughs] Well, she will. This is called “Electric Twist.” Let’s have Jeanna go first.
Jeanna: And this is off the album Bomb in a Birdcage, which is her second album.
Andrew: Ah, of course.
Eric: Okay, I’m obsessed with this band already. Bomb in a Birdcage? Really? [laughs]
Andrew: Okay, here it is.
[“Electric Twist” by A Fine Frenzy plays]
You should be wilder
You’re no fun at all
Yeah, thanks for the input
Thanks for the call
With dull knives and white hands
The blood of a stone
Cold to the touch, right
Right down to the bone
But you give me the electric twist
And it kicks, and it kicks like a pony
Andrew: It sounds great, actually. She’s a great singer.
Jeanna: She is a really good singer. I was going to say our caveat this time is that we have to relate it back to Fantastic Beasts.
Andrew: Oh, that’s easy. I mean, those first lyrics right there, I laughed out loud because it reminded me of Tina.
Jeanna: I know.
Eric: “You should be wilder”?
Andrew: Yeah, “You’re no fun at all.” [laughs]
Jeanna: Who can I relate it to besides Tina? Because I feel that is too obvious. Um…
Micah: Newt?
Jeanna: Yeah, I think it’d be Queenie to Newt, saying, “Hey, let’s have a little fun. Let’s sit down to dinner and have a little wine with our pie and strudel.”
Andrew: [laughs] The best strudel.
Eric: Yeah. Okay, I buy that.
Andrew: All right, here, Eric. Why don’t you go next? This is a song called “Borrowed Time.”
[“Borrowed Time” by A Fine Frenzy plays]
Thick as thieves
The last of leaves in the winter sun
Holding fast
This freezing branch is home to us
Step, step right over the line
And onto borrowed time
When it’s life, not waiting to die
Waiting to divide, to divide
Andrew: That’s going to be a harder one.
Eric: Well, Grindelwald wants to divide the world into supporters and no-supporters, and I think that this winter imagery that’s in this song of borrowed time is relating to the upcoming wizarding war in Fantastic Beasts.
Andrew: Oooh.
Eric: I wish that all pre-war periods could be sung to with a voice as beautiful as Alison’s, but yeah, I think that they’re talking about sort of the days leading up to war. That’s the connection I make. All of the characters will have a choice to make very shortly.
Andrew: Okay. Micah, let’s work on this next one, you and I, together.
Micah: All right.
Andrew: It’s called “Lifesize.”
[“Lifesize” by A Fine Frenzy plays]
Andrew: Oh, it’s fun! The sun is shining. It’s a new day.
Eric: Goodbye, SoCal.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, bye, California. [weeps]
We stood so tall
We caught a plane by the wing
And held it safe
Until we found it a place to land
We laid across the ocean wide
Bridged the gap in record time
The people traveled across and kissed our hands
All for love, we become
Larger than lifesize, wondersome
Andrew: Oh, you ended it before the chorus finished. How dare you?
Eric: Sorry, I was trying to limit the clips to under a minute and ten seconds.
Andrew: It’s okay, it’s okay. Well, this is definitely a love song. It lacks much detail. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, yeah, it’s just…
Andrew: As bright and cheery as it is.
Micah: I was thinking of the scene when the Thunderbird is erasing everybody’s memory, and then he flies off. I don’t know if that really ties into the lyrics themselves, but maybe when Frank is flying off into the distance and he gets back to Phoenix. I don’t know.
[Andrew and Jeanna laugh]
Andrew: “Larger than life”? “By the wing”?
Micah: Yeah, that’s what made me think of the Thunderbird.
Andrew: They’re certainly applying lyrics. All right, and one more. “Rangers.” I’ll try to do this one.
[“Rangers” by A Fine Frenzy plays]
The paths have been crossed
The crumbs are gone
And the way, and the way is lost
Melancholy phantoms eye our skins
Poisoned apples falling with the wind
Hear the sigh of the trees
Those who enter here never leave
And the rangers stream out of their cabins
They are the hunters; we are the rabbits
And maybe we don’t want to be found
Maybe we don’t want to be found
Andrew: Okay, so this is kind of a song about hiding, so I was immediately thinking of Credence trying to avoid being captured, sort of.
Eric: Ooh.
Andrew: I mean, he doesn’t want to… I don’t know if he doesn’t want to be found, exactly, but he is definitely in hiding at the moment, and he’s unsure if he wants to come out, so to speak? Tell me if that was crap. It’s okay, I can deal.
Jeanna: No, I like that.
Eric: I think it was good.
Andrew: Okay, okay, good.
Micah: Yeah, my mine was complete crap. Yours was okay.
Eric: No, yours was good, Micah. We all did good. Let’s just all pat ourselves on the back right now.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay, sure. Support each other to get through it.
[Jeanna laughs]
Eric: Yeah, but she’s got a great voice, and you know what? That instrumentation… I’m definitely going to check out A Fine Frenzy.
Jeanna: Her songs are actually quite lyrical. They’re very descriptive.
Andrew: In the album art she’s a redhead too.
Jeanna: Yes, that’s why… I think on the TV show Dig with Jason Isaacs, she was a brunette, or maybe it was black hair. It was very dark. And I thought it was very interesting that in this movie she was blondie.
Andrew: Yeah. I like her being blondie.
Cursed Child wizard rock
Andrew: To wrap up the show today, we have one listener rebuttal. This is from Sage. They write,
“You got a question about Cursed Child/Fantastic Beasts wizard rock on Episode 315, and I have an answer! The Mudbloods released an AMAZING EP at LeakyCon of Cursed Child songs called ‘The Time-Turner EP,’ and it’s available on their SoundCloud! I also know several other people who are currently writing Fantastic Beasts jams that should be out in the next year (probably this summer), so keep an ear out. Love your show and hope you’re well!”
Eric: Well, thanks, Sage.
Jeanna: I just found this EP in my suitcase, actually. I was cleaning it out.
Andrew: Oh, you bought it?
Jeanna: I did, yeah. I forgot I bought it, obviously.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: If there’s one wizard rock band that I would want to live forever and continue doing music, it is the Mudbloods.
Jeanna: They’re the best.
Andrew: They’re really good. So I’m looking at this EP. The first song is called “Unconditional”; it appears to be a song from Harry to his son. I’ll only play a preview.
[“Unconditional” by the Mudbloods plays]
Andrew: Coffee shop music. Oh, this is the whole song, so buckle in.
[Jeanna laughs]
Every time I try to talk to you,
Every word comes out wrong
Every time I reach out,
You’ve moved further along
A path I don’t understand
Though I’ve been down many roads
And though I try to hold on,
You’d rather struggle alone
It doesn’t hurt me that I don’t know what you want
But it kills me that I don’t know what you need
You’re like a book written in a language that
I recognize but I don’t know how to read
Doing my best to be the best father I can
But when I try, my best intentions, they turn out bad
The only father figures that I ever had
Either pushed me towards death or wanted me to be my dad
So son, when you need me
I’ll be right here
Run as far as you need to
Know I’ll always be near
Because my love for you does not depend on what you do
Or who you become
It’s unconditional, my son
It’s unconditional, my son
Andrew: Aw, that was nice. [singing] “I know you’re gay, my son.”
Jeanna: [singing] “And I’m totally okay with it.”
Andrew: [singing] “You can come out to me.” [laughs]
Eric: Reminds me of the Springsteen Harry Potter song, actually.
Andrew: Yeah, a little bit. There’s a song here called “Oh Rose!” [laughs]
Micah: I wonder how that goes.
Eric: Oh, Rose.
[“Oh Rose!” by the Mudbloods plays]
Andrew: Oh, yeah!
Eric: You know what? Everybody, go check this out on the Mudbloods’ SoundCloud.
Andrew: Eric, you don’t want to sit here and just listen to the whole EP?
Eric: Man, Adam Dubberly. That singer… well, yeah, on our own time.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Not going to take everybody else up. But man, his vocals have only gotten stronger throughout the years.
Andrew: Yeah, it was good. Definitely check it out, pick it up.
Eric: Thank you, Sage.
Andrew: That does it for today’s episode of MuggleCast. Don’t forget, we have that new voicemail number; 1-920-3-MUGGLE is the number. Call and leave a voicemail. We also have our email, MuggleCast@gmail.com. We would love your support on Patreon, Patreon.com/MuggleCast. It keeps the show going. You’ll get a host of benefits, including a bonus MuggleCast we’re about to talk about right now. J.K. Rowling has kind of been quiet about Harry Potter recently, and she did go on a little bit of a Twitter binge, I guess you would call it – tweet binge, tweet rant – the other day after working on Fantastic Beasts 2, and she had something interesting to say about Newt’s Patronus, so we’re going to talk about that in the first bonus MuggleCast of May. Again, that’s Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Jeanna: And I’m Jeanna.
Andrew: And now you can say it.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: You got it.
Andrew: Now it works. Thanks for joining us, Jeanna. We’ll see everybody next time for Episode 319. Goodbye!
Eric: Goodbye.
Jeanna: Bye.